Craps: Any validity in precision shooting?

[bpb]

jh12547,

Your post is useless and off topic. Betting patterns are worthless, and having nothing to do with dice control.

Re: dice control ... the following is a POTM from the green chip boards at BJ21.com from 2006.

Posted By: DD' on 5 Mar 06, 9:09 pm


After investing quite a lot of time and a good bit of money in lessons, equipment, etc, I have decided to all but quit craps. While I had a good bit of success the first few months, actually winning over $100,000, I subsequently lost it all back and believe that my good fortune was nothing more than variance. I have met and shot with many who consider themselves to be skilled shooters. I have not been impressed with anyone and have yet to see anyone I consider to be a serious advantage player betting real money. The only people I see claiming that they do well are those selling books, equipment, and seminars.

Now, I am not saying that I do not believe that some small level of influence is possible or that it is not possible to obtain a small edge under some very narrow set of conditions. But I do not believe it is viable as a serious revenue generator. If anyone should see me at the tables in Vegas please don't jump in betting money even if it looks like I'm betting a good bit. I consider some tables to give me around zero ev and will play them on occasion if I have extra value added, such as RFB, airfare, cash coupons, free tournament entries, etc. I have a sufficient bankroll that I can afford to do this as a comp hustle on a limited basis. But my team is no longer financing or interested in craps what so ever. I now look at it the same way as video poker players who play games close to zero ev and them come out slightly ahead when adding in various extra value things they get from the casino.

I am not posting this to get into a debate with anyone. But I do know that others, as I do, look at what other serious advantage players are involved in something as a guide as to whether they will invest time and money in something. I do not wish the fact that it is known that I have spent some time with this to influence anyone in a positive way. The amount of time and money it will take to get anywhere with this, which I'm not sure is even possible, I believe would be much better spent sharpening skills at any other type of advantage play.

[jh12547]

[ QUOTE ]
jh12547,

Your post is useless and off topic. Betting patterns are worthless, and having nothing to do with dice control.

Re: dice control ... the following is a POTM from the green chip boards at BJ21.com from 2006.

Posted By: DD' on 5 Mar 06, 9:09 pm


After investing quite a lot of time and a good bit of money in lessons, equipment, etc, I have decided to all but quit craps. While I had a good bit of success the first few months, actually winning over $100,000, I subsequently lost it all back and believe that my good fortune was nothing more than variance. I have met and shot with many who consider themselves to be skilled shooters. I have not been impressed with anyone and have yet to see anyone I consider to be a serious advantage player betting real money. The only people I see claiming that they do well are those selling books, equipment, and seminars.

Now, I am not saying that I do not believe that some small level of influence is possible or that it is not possible to obtain a small edge under some very narrow set of conditions. But I do not believe it is viable as a serious revenue generator. If anyone should see me at the tables in Vegas please don't jump in betting money even if it looks like I'm betting a good bit. I consider some tables to give me around zero ev and will play them on occasion if I have extra value added, such as RFB, airfare, cash coupons, free tournament entries, etc. I have a sufficient bankroll that I can afford to do this as a comp hustle on a limited basis. But my team is no longer financing or interested in craps what so ever. I now look at it the same way as video poker players who play games close to zero ev and them come out slightly ahead when adding in various extra value things they get from the casino.

I am not posting this to get into a debate with anyone. But I do know that others, as I do, look at what other serious advantage players are involved in something as a guide as to whether they will invest time and money in something. I do not wish the fact that it is known that I have spent some time with this to influence anyone in a positive way. The amount of time and money it will take to get anywhere with this, which I'm not sure is even possible, I believe would be much better spent sharpening skills at any other type of advantage play.

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Sorry if you didnt quite get it. My point was there is no skill in craps even for someone setting the dice and throwing them the same way everytime. I was just trying to point that out and what i thought that the only skill MIGHT be betting patterns. Next time i will just do the same as you and repost someone elses words who was basically saying the same as what i did anyhow. No skill its all variance. Ill try to explain it in english next time dummy!

[SheetWise]

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I was just trying to point that out and what i thought that the only skill MIGHT be betting patterns. Next time i will just do the same as you and repost someone elses words who was basically saying the same as what i did anyhow. No skill its all variance. Ill try to explain it in english next time dummy!

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I'd be interested in your theory of how betting patterns represent skill -- using either your words or somebody elses.

[bpb]

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Sorry if you didnt quite get it. My point was there is no skill in craps even for someone setting the dice and throwing them the same way everytime. I was just trying to point that out and what i thought that the only skill MIGHT be betting patterns. Next time i will just do the same as you and repost someone elses words who was basically saying the same as what i did anyhow. No skill its all variance. Ill try to explain it in english next time dummy!

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post remains useless and off topic. Please try harder to contribute something useful.

[CORed]

It's been several years since I spent much time on blackjack boards, but I would like to point out that DD' is one of the best posters, with a solid grasp of theory and many years of practical experience at advantage play. If he says that dice control in craps is not a viable advantage play strategy, I believe it.

[jh12547]

BPB

What dont you get. Im still trying to figure out what useful info you posted. The OP asked the question of setting the dice or precision shooting. I said it doesnt matter what anyone does with the dice before they shoot. Its all variance and Luck. No skill involved whatsoever. All I said was the same thing that you copied from DD's post but I said it in less words.
My point for the betting patterns is the players Ive seen over the years that actually dont go broke are the ones that stick to the same common betting pattern. Which IMO and I quote "IMO" is a passline bet and 2 come bets with full odds.
I am definitely no expert but I do have 10,000+ hours of either dealing or flooring craps over the years so i speaking from what ive seen. That is all.

[GiftGiver]

jh 12547

I very rarely post but your stupidity in this thread has gotten under my skin. Your addition to this thread is worhtless and you are most likely worthless as well. Please die.

[jh12547]

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jh 12547

I very rarely post but your stupidity in this thread has gotten under my skin. Your addition to this thread is worhtless and you are most likely worthless as well. Please die.

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Actuall buddy it was a stupid question if you ask me but i was only to try to give my opinion. If you can read i think i made the most sense out of anyone in this thread in answerin his question. If you dont like it dont read it and then you can go [censored] yourself.
Its so easy for people like you to sit behind your keyboard and talk [censored]. Really wish you had balls to say that to my face. Lol

[bpb]

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Actuall buddy it was a stupid question if you ask me but i was only to try to give my opinion.


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A good advantage player knows that there aren't any stupid questions when looking for an edge. What is stupid is drawing conclusions based on incomplete, insufficient, or, in your case, utterly absent data. I posted a few paragraphs from an individual who has spent a lot of time in determining if there's any significant edge to be had with dice setting. You posted an opinion that playing the pass line with full odds and 2 come bets with full odds is the best way to go. (Which is absurd, since betting just the pass with no come is obviously going to lose less ... and betting without the odds is going to have no effect other than to smooth out the variance)

The OP didn't ask people to post their random craps thoughts. He asked if anyone had information re: dice setting. You had and continue to have none, yet you keep posting.



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If you can read i think i made the most sense out of anyone in this thread in answerin his question.


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I don't see how any reasonable person could draw that conclusion.

[GiftGiver]

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jh 12547

I very rarely post but your stupidity in this thread has gotten under my skin. Your addition to this thread is worhtless and you are most likely worthless as well. Please die.


[/ QUOTE ]
Actuall buddy it was a stupid question if you ask me but i was only to try to give my opinion. If you can read i think i made the most sense out of anyone in this thread in answerin his question. If you dont like it dont read it and then you can go [censored] yourself.
Its so easy for people like you to sit behind your keyboard and talk [censored]. Really wish you had balls to say that to my face. Lol


[/ QUOTE ]
HAHAHA
Your anger amuses me. Thank you for the PM as well. Instead of [censored] myself, I laughed my ass off at you. I'm glad I have caused at least a small amount of misery in your life.

I love how you accuse me of somehow being a coward because I am behind a keyboard talking [censored]. Meanwhile you are doing the same. I do have the balls to say that to your face. Please tell me that you deal craps in A.C. I would like to meet and further discuss your idiocy. In the meantime don't make the same mistake that your father did. Please castrate yourself so as not to pass your worthless and moronic genes to the next generation.

Enjoy your lucrative and fulfilling career as a craps dealer. I hope one day to be able to achieve like you have in life. Please hijack this thread and further explain how you became so knowledgable/awesome/accomplished. I am dying to know.