Collusion in canterbury 30/60 game?

[threeonefour]

chillrob, its a limit game and he has like 3k in front of him. i agree its wrong, but i certainly wouldn't make it on the grounds that he is effectively going south to the tune of 5 dollars.

i didn't complain, but i am a little bitch. i did complain about the other situation though (which happened in a small casino in the northwest).

the 'tipping' situation happened at the commerce, which i have only been to on a couple occasions but each time i have seen players flipping a chip or two back and forth on occasion. usually when a player is on a heater a buddy with ask for a chip and get one, but also on heads up river situations. this was the only flagrantly abusive one that i saw though. i have seen similar practices in many other casinos except usually in the instance of 'heater chips' people trade a chip of equal value for one, not give them away.

[Nate.]

threeonefour--

Thanks for the detailed response. I'd agree that some of what you saw, combined with the right intent, could be cheating. It's just that my own experience is so far from that, even in the nittiest and most inbred games, that I'm disinclined to think that cheating is the likeliest explanation.

And also agreed that little agreements can tweak proper strategies... but again, though I as much as anyone want everyone to be playing 100% straight-up, that's not always realistic, and part of sitting at a poker table is figuring out where everyone's priorities are. A five-dollar "ping" is almost never enough to make much of any sort of difference.

--Nate

[threeonefour]

-Nate

i in turn, agree with you. 99% of the time there is no malice involved, regardless of intent though, there needs to be guidelines to prevent things from getting out of hand. *especially* if a newbie could misunderstand something, a lot of us live players don't realize how intimidating playing live for the first time is. i was shaking like a leaf the first time i sat in a 3/6 game live. my ex girlfriend played about 50k hands online but literally refused to play in front of people, i think many people are too intimidated to even play pit games because they are afraid to look foolish, which is one reason why slots are so popular imo.

usually the floor, dealers, and regulars do a pretty good job of enforcing the rules adequately without being to nitty.

the 5$ tip thing was a one time thing, and certainly no big deal as such. but if somehow i was getting a 5$ rebate from every showdown i got to, i would likely be the best 30/60 player in the world and probably one of the better 50/100 pros.

[Abbaddabba]

I think that in general, the collusion you really need to be worried about is the kind that you'll never take notice of.

People who check it down with other players arent going to be threats. It's not at all effective at fleecing those who're uninvolved, and it arouses a ton of suspicion.

Situations that are deservedly suspicious are spots where you're faced with two bets on the big streets (getting you to fold) and no hand is shown down. Or similarly, when you find yourself sandbagged on multiple streets without the bettor (or raiser) showing their hands down. But of course both those things happen quite often for legitimate reasons.

[Bad Lobster]

That's why they let you ask to see people's hands.

[chillrob]

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That's why they let you ask to see people's hands.

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That doesn't help when there is no showdown. How often with collusion to push people out would there be a showdown anyway. IWTSTH is bogus as far as preventing collusion.

[goodgrief]

From the description, it sounds like "pinging," and it is hard to believe that anyone has played more than a few hours live with Asians without observing "pinging."

In my short history of poker play I've even observed one pinger cheat the other pinger but it is too long of a story to feel like typing it now. Boils down to, they made an agreement to "ping" and one of the players then just spent a lot of time somehow sitting out so he was collecting chips from her rush but never put any chips at risk and so of course never "pinged" any back. She finally caught on, cursed and swore, and he decided to depart the table altogether. For all I know, they had a shoot out in the parking lot over it later. Sure, people who share bankrolls, soft play each other, pass each other chips, and so on may end up stabbing each other in the back on a dark night behind the barn, but it doesn't much help any third parties they teamed against.

For the record, I don't consider "pinging" to be cheating. But it makes it pretty clear that some people are friends, couples, teams, etcetera, and doesn't really make the tourist feel welcome. And certainly it is naive in the extreme to think that only stupid people collude in a situation where the chances of being prosecuted for cheating are virtually zero, as is the case with live poker. Stupid people rob 711s, bright people look for angles and deniability.




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even little things like a regular tossing a 5$ chip back to another regular after calling a river bet and losing can seem kind of weird to people new to live play. i see asians do this a lot with other asians, i have even had one a guy give a girl 5$ after the river action was:

guy bets river
i call
girl call

girl and i lose, guy gives girl 5$ from the pot (i get nothing obv). if this girl knew she was going to get 5$ in advance, then she has a much stronger incentive to call, which [censored] things up for me because there is a good chance i really don't want her to overcall, clearly it would be cheating if he told her in advance that he would pay her to call but its pretty hazy since there is only an implicit possibility that he might based on their previous relationship. they actually chatted a bit before the call 'do you want me to call? because if you do i will?' but didn't actually discuss anything beyond normal stuff you hear at the table. of course i am sure they meant no harm, but that action distorted the game and definitely shouldn't be allowed in non-heads up situations.

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I have played with a lot of Asians in California games and have never seen this (luckily).

I think this is way over the line and I probably would complain about it. This should be a rules violation if for no other reason than people generally aren't allowed to take money out of their stacks except to tip a dealer. This sounds like the "tipper" is taking money out of his stack to give it to another player.

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[mosch]

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I have played with a lot of Asians in California games and have never seen this (luckily).

I think this is way over the line and I probably would complain about it. This should be a rules violation if for no other reason than people generally aren't allowed to take money out of their stacks except to tip a dealer. This sounds like the "tipper" is taking money out of his stack to give it to another player.

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It happens all the time, and there is absolutely no way it's collusion or anything. The players who do it are pretty much always the people you're winning from. Calling the floor here is -EV.

That said, I know some people are real nits about that crap. I've had people complain that I was playing red/black with another player, even though I had better than 70BBs in front of me in a limit game.

[gostrder]

I've never played at canterbury but live close by. whats your take on the entire operation?

[hoppscot22]

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I've never played at canterbury but live close by. whats your take on the entire operation?

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its obviously rigged because poker is always rigged.