to early push? 15+1

hirschi · #1 07-26-2007, 05:53 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB (t1565)
UTG (t1135)
MP1 (t1910)
Hero (t1485)
CO (t1725)
Button (t4375)
SB (t1305)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t300, 2 folds, SB raises to t1305, 1 fold, Hero calls t1005.

mnlgrind · #2 07-26-2007, 07:24 AM

reads on sb would be great as played I don't think I can fold this here.

LeChuck · #3 07-26-2007, 08:31 AM

if he is a tight player i would tend to fold here... is this wrong?

Niggel · #4 07-26-2007, 09:12 AM

I'd just limp TT pre-flop.
As played: Without reads --> Fold

WFDeac · #5 07-26-2007, 09:14 AM

Wow. Against most I think this line is fine/perfect.

TwistedEcho · #6 07-26-2007, 11:04 AM

I make it 250 preflop, obviously call the push

blowbubbles · #7 07-26-2007, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I make it 250 preflop, obviously call the push

[/ QUOTE ]

Twisted, after your 250 preflop bid, would you also have called bigstacks push?

If so, why not just open push?

TwistedEcho · #8 07-26-2007, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 250 preflop, obviously call the push

[/ QUOTE ]

Twisted, after your 250 preflop bid, would you also have called bigstacks push?

If so, why not just open push?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because people are dumb at poker, and when you raise to 250 they think shoving A4s is a good steal.

If you open push hands you crush will likely just fold, and you'll get called by like 88+ ~AT+, if you raise to 250 you create 'fold equity' and they will shove on you with hands like 44, KQ, A7 etc

edit: also i don't want my range to be too narrow - i assume you aren't pushing AA/KK/QQ here, so i don't want better players to be able to take them out of my range and make it easier for them to play correctly against me.

blowbubbles · #9 07-26-2007, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 250 preflop, obviously call the push

[/ QUOTE ]

Twisted, after your 250 preflop bid, would you also have called bigstacks push?

If so, why not just open push?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because people are dumb at poker, and when you raise to 250 they think shoving A4s is a good steal.

If you open push hands you crush will likely just fold, and you'll get called by like 88+ ~AT+, if you raise to 250 you create 'fold equity' and they will shove on you with hands like 44, KQ, A7 etc

edit: also i don't want my range to be too narrow - i assume you aren't pushing AA/KK/QQ here, so i don't want better players to be able to take them out of my range and make it easier for them to play correctly against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, thanks. But most players must realize you are more or less pot comitted here, so they shouldn't expect you to fold to a push?

TwistedEcho · #10 07-26-2007, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 250 preflop, obviously call the push

[/ QUOTE ]

Twisted, after your 250 preflop bid, would you also have called bigstacks push?

If so, why not just open push?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because people are dumb at poker, and when you raise to 250 they think shoving A4s is a good steal.

If you open push hands you crush will likely just fold, and you'll get called by like 88+ ~AT+, if you raise to 250 you create 'fold equity' and they will shove on you with hands like 44, KQ, A7 etc

edit: also i don't want my range to be too narrow - i assume you aren't pushing AA/KK/QQ here, so i don't want better players to be able to take them out of my range and make it easier for them to play correctly against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, thanks. But most players must realize you are more or less pot comitted here, so they shouldn't expect you to fold to a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm opening some hands here to 250 and folding to a push, but TT isn't one of those hands. Also most players don't even think, they just see A4s and shove - but they realise calling 1400 preflop is bad. (although some people still call preflop with A4s if you open shove).

Basically bad players will make more mistakes if you raise to 250 than if you push. If we had less chips, say ~1200 i would just open push since now open raising will drop us below 10bb. In general if an open raise will either commit us on the flop(if they call), or will drop us to 9 or less BB i will just shove. So if we had 1200 exactly, i would usually push but occasionally make it 250. However i won't be opening any hands to 250 that im folding to a push, but the fish don't realise that.