50NL 3bet OOP PF w/ AQo Do I c-bet? - Page 2

BevillTheDevil · #11 07-26-2007, 02:03 AM

everyone likes a cbet here huh?? Well i might get flamed for this but w/e, I really dont think a cbet here is all that great. Recently in my vid i had very similar situation like this. It folds to a 23/14 guy OTB he raises i have AQo in the SB i 3bet he calls flop comes 682r, i cbet he raises i fold...

a few good ppl said they like a check here. 29/15 is a little different but what is his callin range pf?? say 77+, AQ+ and maybe some other stuff probably not a really wide range. I really dont think 77+ (yes uNL players can't fold overs) is foldin, AQ obv not as likely and we maybe get AK to fold. If this guy is anywhere decent i think we are gettin called/raised too much on this flop to cbet. I use to think auto cbet after 3bettin pf but that is spew can take out a huge chunk out of your winrate. Buutttt this guy is a little looser so he could be callin w/ an even wider range which you could make an arguement to cbet and it probably makes this not as bad a spot to cbet...

dimeetrees · #12 07-26-2007, 03:56 AM

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everyone likes a cbet here huh?? Well i might get flamed for this but w/e, I really dont think a cbet here is all that great. Recently in my vid i had very similar situation like this. It folds to a 23/14 guy OTB he raises i have AQo in the SB i 3bet he calls flop comes 682r, i cbet he raises i fold...

a few good ppl said they like a check here. 29/15 is a little different but what is his callin range pf?? say 77+, AQ+ and maybe some other stuff probably not a really wide range. I really dont think 77+ (yes uNL players can't fold overs) is foldin, AQ obv not as likely and we maybe get AK to fold. If this guy is anywhere decent i think we are gettin called/raised too much on this flop to cbet. I use to think auto cbet after 3bettin pf but that is spew can take out a huge chunk out of your winrate. Buutttt this guy is a little looser so he could be callin w/ an even wider range which you could make an arguement to cbet and it probably makes this not as bad a spot to cbet...

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That sounds like a pretty good evaluation, thanks for the advice.

dimeetrees · #13 07-26-2007, 04:00 AM

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You need to lead this every time. When you 3-bet from the blinds you have to follow through every time.

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I wouldn't do this vs. thinking players who know you well.

ajmargarine · #14 07-26-2007, 04:00 AM

It's not a CB every time. But, you should probably cb more than not cb in this spot. I like a 3b to $6.50 too.

SirFelixCat · #15 07-26-2007, 04:08 AM

Let me preface by saying that I really respect Bevil's play as well as this thoughts, but I really disagree in this spot.

The reason, though, is because uNL players CAN lay down med. overpairs here. Now, will they muck JJ+ here? Slim to none, but below that, you bet they can. Can all of them? Certainly not, but enough can and do. You're repping immense strength here and not many people are willing to play for stacks with a med pair, even when it's an overpair.

Another reason I like a CB here is that if you are called, it defnitely narrows his range and we can still spike an A on the turn (although not often, granted). Also, it buys us info on how he plays as well. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a "bet to see where you're at" kinda thing. We're betting as a bluff to rep a big hand, but it ALSO has the added advantage of buying us info.

Yes, a CB here will go down in flames and take a chunk out of the winrate, but I have found that it succeeds enough that we make up for the times we have to fold to a raise etc.

YMMV, but I promise you that if you check, if villain is even decent, he's betting you off your hand 100% of the time. So therefore, I have to ask...why 3bet to begin with if we're going to c/f the flop UI?

eta: this is not a CB 100% of the time, but it should be the default play, imo.

infinite_loop · #16 07-26-2007, 04:11 AM

Wow. Read my post.

"the average uNL player" != "the right opponent"

corsakh · #17 07-26-2007, 04:13 AM

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I figure AQo is ahead of opponents range

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God no, once your called your behind. Cbetting is risky, since because he called he probably does not give you much credit anyway and will call the cbet. The only hand you fold is AK/AQ. I think you can give up here, but its certainly villain dependant.

ajmargarine · #18 07-26-2007, 04:16 AM

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You need to lead this every time. When you 3-bet from the blinds you have to follow through every time.

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I wouldn't do this vs. thinking players who know you well.

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Also an added note. If you CB this and get called and the turn is a brick like the 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you need to push the turn a % of the time.

infinite_loop · #19 07-26-2007, 04:20 AM

Exactly, which is why I will mix a check-raise in once in a while or double barrel.

Try floating a double barrel with K high.

BevillTheDevil · #20 07-26-2007, 11:57 AM

Ya i just saw how everyone was like "auto cbet" when i dont think this is an def cbet spot. It really can go either way IMO. But def not a 100% cbet spot...more of like a 50/50 thing to me (and probably not exactly that ratio but somethin like that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )