200 NL, KK in a sick spot, 200+ BB deep.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
The only relevance is that there was a higher chance that someone had AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or 37o preflop....
As long as you don't put villain on AA, then there's no relevance.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is first level thinking. DUCY?

Ok, I'll elaborate. It's the very fact that KK/AA are out there more frequently that changes everything about how people play and value hands in full ring, whether they are holding AA/KK or not.

[twoblacknines]

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If we looked at this hand from Villians POV, couldnt this be the perfect river card to semi-bluff on?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL how does one "semi-bluff" on the river?
I know you just meant "bluff" but it's funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I was about to type...if he was going to semi-bluff it would be on turn with the club outs. But if I was villain I would sense a checkraise coming and not want to get blown off my hand. If we make a large bet on the turn and he calls I really don't think he bluffs river..It would require a very large bet from him. If river bricks I think it's an easy check-call.

[Makonnen]

I don't like the c/c on the turn at all. Bet $80 - $100 on the turn. If he r/r, fold; if he just calls, I think you're good, unless the river comes scary. In any case, block the river, fold to river r/r, since passive players don't bluff-raise on the river a whole lot.

Also, what about a larger flop bet? $45 - $60?

[DGenR8]

Wow. This is an interesting hand generating interesting discussion. But...

From JooWish622 we have: "please read midstakes and get your head checked"

From RyanCMU we have: "Wow... You sir are an idiot"

From Jessyj07 we have: "wow way to go with your read. maybe someday you'll be as good as thelaughlinman lol."

I wonder why some folks think these forums are full of a@@holes??

[mce86]

[ QUOTE ]
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If we looked at this hand from Villians POV, couldnt this be the perfect river card to semi-bluff on?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL how does one "semi-bluff" on the river?

I know you just meant "bluff" but it's funny.

[/ QUOTE ]
What I mean by seim-bluff is that he has a good but not great hand. He doesnt have the set of flush, and he is hoping if you maybe have him beat you fold, and if not he still is ahead. He did get KK outta there, and if he did have JJ or QQ then he did a great job. Maybe it was badly played aces as well, and hes trying to get you off a set by repping the flush card...if you call he hopes you have less than him. Million diff scenarios....

[Woolygimp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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If we looked at this hand from Villians POV, couldnt this be the perfect river card to semi-bluff on?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL how does one "semi-bluff" on the river?

I know you just meant "bluff" but it's funny.

[/ QUOTE ]
What I mean by seim-bluff is that he has a good but not great hand. He doesnt have the set of flush, and he is hoping if you maybe have him beat you fold, and if not he still is ahead. He did get KK outta there, and if he did have JJ or QQ then he did a great job. Maybe it was badly played aces as well, and hes trying to get you off a set by repping the flush card...if you call he hopes you have less than him. Million diff scenarios....

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a flush...almost...always.

[mce86]

I could see myself doing the same bet here on the river with QQ-KK. His bets were weak on the flop, and then he checked the turn. Id take the river as a poss. bluff, and since I had alot more than a bluff cather, I could make the case to raise. More likely to do it with QQ than AA IMO.
What is villian putting Hero on based on the way he played it? To me it looks like a complete miss, it certainly doesnt look like KK.

As a sidenote, i see points on both sides, I just dont see anyone pointing out what Villian's thought process is here other than hands he would play ABC and do this with.

[SABR42]

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I could see myself doing the same bet here on the river with QQ-KK. His bets were weak on the flop, and then he checked the turn. Id take the river as a poss. bluff, and since I had alot more than a bluff cather, I could make the case to raise. More likely to do it with QQ than AA IMO.
What is villian putting Hero on based on the way he played it? To me it looks like a complete miss, it certainly doesnt look like KK.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you put me on nothing, but bluff-raise with QQ anyway?

That makes no sense.

[mappedout]

i missed something i guess... why no lead on the turn? i would've bet $45 on the flop and $100 on the turn, why would you let this get to the river... find out if he flopped a set with the PSB, if no R on the flop then PSB the turn aswell! if he calls that then your done and your out marginally more $$ (~$40) than the way it was played and this way you have more meaningful information and most of the time you'll take it down on the turn withvillian having all the hands you mentioned above (FD/SD/TP)

however having said that the way it was played i think the fold on the river is close but correct, gf

in these pots with AA/KK i am just looking to pick up the pf 3bet i made and not let them hit anything else, btw fwiw the guy that said to just call his r pf in the SB with KK needs to come sit at my tables awhile [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[LuckyLloyd]

WOOLYGIMP:

Can you pleaseexplain what your river plan is after you bet and are called on the turn as per MCE86's request upthread?