Mike Caro's book of tells ~ how improtant a tells live?

[Gonso]

Man, you ARE awesome. This whole time I was thinking Phil really was reading souls or using actual magic. Wow, hand analysis and physical tells? You don't say. I want to hang with you, only then I can steal your Goldmine tell secretz for myself OMG OMG

[Sounded Simple]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, you ARE awesome. This whole time I was thinking Phil really was reading souls or using actual magic. Wow, hand analysis and physical tells? You don't say. I want to hang with you, only then I can steal your Goldmine tell secretz for myself OMG OMG

[/ QUOTE ]

Id assume this translates as...

"I dont fully understand the topic. So therefore I will post random off topic babble."

If you have nothing more useful to say then say nothing.

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Man, you ARE awesome. This whole time I was thinking Phil really was reading souls or using actual magic. Wow, hand analysis and physical tells? You don't say. I want to hang with you, only then I can steal your Goldmine tell secretz for myself OMG OMG

[/ QUOTE ]

Id assume this translates as...

"I am feeling inferior and dont understand the topic. So therefore I will post random off topic babble."

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's more, "who is this noob rambling on about the obvious." I promise you your secret tell crap won't impress many people here. As far as feeling "inferior", I probably have socks with more live table time than you do.


Also, try not to let that PH laydown blow your mind too much. He had TPTK and there was an excellent chance he was up against a better hand. QQ and AA were both very strong possibilities as played.

[Sounded Simple]

[ QUOTE ]
"who is this noob rambling on about the obvious."

[/ QUOTE ]

OK so you know the tell?
Sorry if its so obvious that its not relevant.

My point is that quite often you see these laydowns made and wonder how they do it.
Of course its usually overstated by commentators and players themselves - but that doesnt mean its not an important part of the game.

My point AGAIN is -
This is not some secret crap (where you got that idea I dont know), its readily available information in lots of books and sources (both poker and non-poker related).

With some study and research its fairly easy to incorperate an edge to your game, or perhaps this noob has misunderstood the point of this forum?

I suppose you were born with 1000+ posts? I also forgot that "2+2 Post Count" is the true measure of a player.

[BigAlK]

I'm not that experienced playing live except in a bar league where most of the players are so bad they don't know if their hand is good or not which makes tells much less useful.

However I spent a week in Vegas earlier this summer and had a few experiences with tells. There were a few times when I picked up on tells. One time I'm pretty sure I was successful in giving off a reverse tell (at least my opponent did what I wanted almost immediately after I started giving off the tell). Both of these were based on things I learned from the Navarro book ("Read 'Em and Reap"). Based on my limited experience I agree with those that say this can be useful, but it is just one more tool you can use live. Solid strategy and reading betting patterns are much more important.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dan Harrington just now taught me that most tells aren't that useful with the exception of the tells that involve the hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP

At the limits you're talking about OP, don't put too much stock in them. The Strong Means Weak bit is generally legit. Tells are useful, don't get me wrong, but betting patterns are 10x more useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Odd timing when i read this thread, I just watched those two baboons on ESPN say "Alex Jacob doesn't believe tells are that important, betting patterns are more valuable" or something like that. Thats the first time I've ever seen anyone tell the truth on TV about tells, TV players and commentators have been lying to us all all along (or they are totally clueless themselves). Sure tells have some value, but its just a small part of the overall decision in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Alex Jacob is a great player, but why would he ever be cited as an authority on tells? There is a tendency in sports and games to only work on your strong points and to consider everything else unimportant.

I know that the relative unimportance of tells is said by a lot of people on twoplustwo, but each time I play live I see their importance a little more. For one thing, the notch that they up your winrate would completely kill your downswings. I mean, Foxwoods used to have a guy that would narrate the hands and basically tell you which hand out of three categories he didn't have (strong made hand, draw, weak made hand), and that's not important?

BUT lots of bad live players overuse them, or use them in the wrong spots, and negate their value.

[Check2TheLady]

Books about tells are all well and good, and some of them offer some useful rules of thumb and describe the more common tells, but there will always be someone who, consciously or not, does not follow these generalisations. IMO, there is no substitute for observing your individual opponents and how their betting patterns and physical mannerisms relate to the hands they show down. Trying to put other players on a hand/range of hands when you are not involved in a pot with them will give you more confidence in your reads when you are.