Rulings question

[Eihli]

The max buy-in where I play is $300 or half the largest stack. I just get busted by seat 8 and ask how much I can rebuy for. Seat 8 is sitll stacking up his chips so it's hard to say how much he has. The dealer says "He has about $1000". I like to get a little extra so I can put it in my pocket and keep stacked up so I'm not calling for $20 in chips every 5 minutes so I take out $600 and hand it to the runner and say "5 green".

Chip runner thinks I only gave him $500 and says "5 behind."

I say "That's $600, 5 green 1 red".

Chip runner says "6 behind."

The next hand is dealt and I get pocket jacks and raise, a few callers including seat 8. While the rest of the table is calling, the chip runner returns and puts $600 on the table. I count it out and pull $100 in green off thinking that's the max.

Flop is T94

I bet, get a few callers. Now seat 8 is finished stacking up his chips and it turns out he has a little over $1200.

Turn is a J and me and seat 8 get it all-in against each other.

Am I all-in for $600 total or $500?

[wakanohana]

After playing so many hands you should know the answer. You declared "5 behind" which is what you are in for.

[Pov]

Assuming your details are complete and accurate, I think you're in for $600. You handed the chip runner $600, he announced it as "6 behind" and it was legal for you to bring $600 onto the table. The 8-seat should have heard the announcement of 6 behind and so it's reasonable for him and everyone else to think you have $600. You may have intended at the time to bring only $500 onto the table and pocket the other $100, but no one can know what your intentions are, only what was actually said and done.

The $500 answer has some merits because your actions were also consistent with your intentions when you took the $100 off the table and based upon the dealer's estimate of the largest stack. However, just because the dealer says "about $1000" doesn't mean you didn't eyeball the other player's chips yourself and determine the dealer had undercounted and it would seem your intention was to buy-in for the maximum, which turned out to be $600.

If you had made a second correction to the runner to say "5 behind, 1 in change" I would say you are in for $500. The 8-seat probably should have recounted your stack before getting all-in, but he just heard your count announced as 6 behind and I think it's reasonable that he could rely on that information when he was making his decisions on how to play the hand. Perhaps he only called your raise thinking you had $600 to give him his implied odds, then you pulled the $100 off after.

edit to add: You did say the bit about "5 green" but that only specifies denomination, not that you intended the other $100 not to play if it could.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
no one can know what your intentions are, only what was actually said and done.


[/ QUOTE ]

$600 plays.

Where is this dopey "half the biggest stack" rule? Who would come up with such cumbersome nonsense?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Although you bought 6, and now that he's done the big stack has 12, you did put the extra 1 in your pocket. You should have confirmed the amount of your buy-in before you got so far into the hand. I'd say you're in for 5. No good can come when you're unclear of such important actions as how much you're playing for.

Al

[pfapfap]

This is a situation where I don't feel it's unfair to give the OP the least-favorable outcome. That is, if he wins, he's on for 5; he loses, he's on for 6. The dealer states very clearly he had 6 behind, however he pocketed 1. Had he lost and nobody noticed, would he have said anything? Maybe he's honest and good, but this certainly opens the door to a lot of angle-shooting.

It was up to the OP to pay attention to what was going on and provide correct information to the dealer. Because he didn't, he learns the lesson and sets the example for others, while making it clear to potential angleshooters that this isn't one they can try.

[zerocarb]

[ QUOTE ]
Had he lost and nobody noticed, would he have said anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does OP say that he lost?

I would also like to know where this is. I never heard of setting buy-in limits based on other stacks.

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no one can know what your intentions are, only what was actually said and done.


[/ QUOTE ]

$600 plays.

Where is this dopey "half the biggest stack" rule? Who would come up with such cumbersome nonsense?

[/ QUOTE ]
Guy a couple days ago sat down and immediately bitched about not being able to buy in for enough to cover the biggest stack at the table and said "absolute caps are BS--I should get to buy in for 75% of the biggest stack--that's what everybody else lets you do". uhhh... no... that's not what everybody else does. But it is apparently what they do where he plays in KC.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
After playing so many hands you should know the answer. You declared "5 behind" which is what you are in for.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The dealer states very clearly he had 6 behind, however he pocketed 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

These quotes are from two different posts but neither is from the OP's recitation of events. B&M reading comprehension scores are apparently way down.

The dealer said that the big stack had about $1000 (which would make the max buy in about $500). The chip runner announced "5 behind" and then corrected himself to "6 behind." OP apparently never had 6 on the table, taking the "6th" off as soon as it arrived.

The dealer should have clarified the amount of the buy-in before proceeding with the hand. The last announcement to the table was that OP was "6 behind" so everyone was on notice of that. If neither OP nor the dealer ever corrected that to say -- "NO. 5 behind, 1 in chips doesn't play," I would think that all $600 plays. Now, the fact that OP only has $500 on the table at the time of the all in is going to cause some additional problems... the 1/2 the biggest stack rule that would allow OP to add chips to his stack in $5 (or $20) incriments also sucks.

[AngusThermopyle]

What would have happened if seat 8 had only $800 when he got done stacking?

$400? $500? $600?

OP and dealer should have corrected/clarified the chip runner's statement. ("$500 behind and $100 extra" or something similar).

Dealer's statement that his stack was $1000 and your action should make your exposure $500.