AKo late position many players

[SugarPush]

Full Tilt 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
UTG calls, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6, A, 3 [color=#0000FF](7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
BB checks, [color=#CC3333]UTG bets</font>, CO folds, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

So, I played this hand differently than I usually do. I am trying to apply some principals from SSH and am hoping that everyone can help me figure out if I am getting them right. Please let me know what you think of the play but also please comment on my rationale for making the plays.

Reads: UTG 30/8/2.67 more aggressive on turn and river
BB 65/27/.89
Overall the table was way too loose preflop and there were several calling stations.

Pre flop: There are already four callers in the hand. The BB is almost certainly going to play the hand whether or not there is a raise. I almost certainly have the best hand so raising preflop is +EV. However, if I raise preflop and get 5 callers the pot will be 12 bets and almost any hand will be correct in calling a single bet. If I limp and get 6 callers the pot will be 7 bets and a lot of calls will be mistakes. AKo is not a great multi-way hand so I limp preflop giving up preflop equity and hoping to make post flop equity. Comments please. I am trying to play hands more situationally and am trying to vary my play based on these situations. Note: I would definitely raise with AKs or AQs but would call with AQo in this situation.

Flop: I would have loved if someone on my right had bet so that I could raise and knock a lot of people out of the pot. I bet because I almost certainly have the best hand and because it will cause hands that missed but may pick up a draw to fold. For example the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Qo should fold but could pick up a heart flush draw and a straight draw if the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits. I think that this is pretty standard.

Turn: I fold to the UTG bet. I usually do not fold just because a three flush is on the board; however, with seven people seeing the flop and with this particular board I figure that UTG had to have a flush draw. BB could have 6 with a random kicker but I just could not put UTG on any other hand. Maybe UTG could have 67s non heart and decided to bluff the turn.

Do you think that this fold is too weak? I would likely have to call two BB (one on turn one on river) to see if TPTK was good.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

[WhiteKnight]

I'm not the most qualified person to comment, but this hand seems like a tradgedy. Raise preflop... you might be giving others odds to call down later, but as played you're sacrificing a lot of equity preflop to gain less postflop.

As played, betting the flop is standard. I think the turn fold is weak, but this is not a situation I would normally find myself in (raising preflop gives us better odds to call), so I'm not 100% sure.

[ProfessorBen]

This issue preflop has been discussed a bajillion times. AJo is marginal raise. AKo is an insta raise.

[James.]

sugarpush, this hand is pretty bad.

AKo should be raised. you don't have a marginal hand; not raising preflop gives up quite a bit of value.

the flop is standard.

based on your reads, the most aggressive player described to be at the table, out of nowhere bets the turn when an obvious scare card comes and you just up and fold TPTK getting 6.5-1? you are giving up way too much here, also. if you make folds like this regularly, you are going to lose alot of money in these games. this could easily be a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] semibluffing, or even just a Queen that paired on the turn. you need to keep in mind the lack of strength you have shown. all you did was bet the flop from the button when checked to. fwiw, players like him will often give more action on the flop with a quality draw like a 4 flush. all of this is why it's crucial to continue in this hand against an aggressive opponent: you have sorely underrepresented the strength of your holding, and that could have affected the way villian has played his hand.

furthermore, if you establish that he is capable of betting a worse hand on the turn(a draw, a weaker ace, a queen), you must punish him for this play by raising.

yes, this fold is too weak. especially in the online games of today. if this is anywhere close to standard play for you, i recommend maybe dropping down in limits and reevaluating some of the fundamental philosophies present in you play. in the long run you game will stand to gain alot from it. good luck.

[Gap23Razor]

like the screen name...i take it you can dance West Coast Swing? (if that's so, you can get action at your local country western dance hall that most of the 2+2ers would kill-pot for, ha ha &lt;couldn't resist laughing a my joke&gt

btw, thanks for putting up this hand, this situation is one i really never fully thought out until now...here is my thinking

like others here i think the fold on the turn was not right...while there's a good chance the villain has a flush, the action doesn't seem to add up...as mentioned by James, an aggressive player will bet or c/r a four card flush on the flop...the villain did not...another factor not mentioned yet is the most likely flush hand to be played is Ax...and the A is on the board...with 30% V$PIP i would think the flush hands the villain played would be Axs, K9s+, Q8s+, J7s+ and everything else is likely a no gapper...so two cards with the most kickers Ax &amp; Qx are not in the villain's hand...this cuts down on the probability the villain has made a hand...i would think he would need to have stats like 40%+ V$PIP to be playing any two suited cards...also, was the game mostly passive preflop with a lot of callers? if so more likely to limp with any two suited, but if some raising preflop, less likely...

normally i would think that a donk bet into a field of four on the turn with a flush on the board is a pretty sound indication of strong made hand, but the prior action on this hand doesn't go along with a made flush draw...

calling down will let you know if the villain is passive with his draws or foolish with bluffs

a call down seems the play here...

[HoneyBadger]

On a similar note: what do you guys think about AKo when it's raised? This happened today, a somewhat loose UTG+2 or so raised, there were some 4 callers, and I was in the BB with AKo. I just called. IMO this was similar to waiting for the turn, whileI might have a minor equity edge preflop, it's much more clear on the flop.

[pariah8]

OP, I understand what you are saying preflop, but IMO if you raise you are allowing the blinds the opportunity to fold (they have it if you just call but they have stupid odds not to call). Some people (especially at 2/4) aren't thinking about equity or odds and just go a raise, they just think guess my weak hand from the blind should fold.

Part of poker is to create the opportunity for an opponent to make a tactical mistake.

Also I agree with the fold on the turn being too weak, but the earlier play allowed them to allow you to make a tactical mistake. (It's okay though I've made similar plays with your thought process of giving up preflop equity for post flop equity and such so I understand).

[SugarPush]

Thanks for the feedback. This was a really oddly played hand by me that's why I posted it. I didn't particularly like the play either but wanted some extra opinions.

So, on the turn you would raise? Would you fold to a re-raise or call it down?

[SugarPush]

Yes I do dance West Coast Swing. It is pretty unusual for someone to recognize my screen name. This is only the second time that it has happened.

Thanks for the feedback on the hand. I can see that the fold was clearly weak. In addition I should have (and I just thought of this) thought about what my opponent put me on. He could have put me on a auto-raise from the button with any two cards and was simply playing back at me. The more I think about it the more I like to raise on the turn and then call it down if I am re-raised.

[SugarPush]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to apply SSH principals after yet another reread and have been questioning some of my earlier automatic plays to try to make some improvements to my overall game.

Some of the changes are good some are bad. Now I'm trying to notice the bad changes and only keep the good.