Harrah's Makes Good Floor Decision?

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't read most of the replies to this thread so excuse me if I'm repeating something or if my tangent has already been elaborated on. A dealer cannot muck a winning (tabled) hand, however, as we know based on the cards, you did not have the winning hand.

His hand was the last live hand and automatically can be awarded the pot because of that fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

More to the point, if the dealer hadn't incorrectly mucked your hand, then there's little likelihood that the other player whould have mucked his winning hand. All that you really lost by the dealer's error was the right to see the hand that beat you. But it was never going to be your pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

More to the point, you take the word of the Opponent and his Friend that Opponent had the winner. Very trusting. I am the Agent for a the owner of a certain Bridge that has just been put up for sale and ....

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looking back that would have been the right thing to do, but who tables their hand and keeps their hand on the cards? I don't know anyone who does.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know anyone that I wouldn't classify as "new to casino poker" that doesn't hold onto their cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be posted right at the top of this forum.

When I read OP's story I thought for sure he would get completely hosed but to my surprise Harrah's actually did something right by giving him back his share of the pot. IMO, no way can they award him the entire pot from the other guy since the dealer didn't make him show. That's not his fault.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think most repetitive jobs have an acceptable error rate. A full time dealer will deal roughly 78k hands a year. If they make a mistake once every 50k times they deal a hand that is still more than once a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know they make mistakes.
And I can understand/forgive most of them.

But what part of "On a heads up board of JxxJK, it is bet-raise-call. Raiser turns over KK in front of him (not tossed forward). Opponent does nothing. Dealer grabs KK with left hand while shoving pot to Opponent with his right" can be attributed to anything but the dealer just not paying attention? (Yes, I did scream "Whoa" before he could muck them. And, yes, I did tip him. And his "excuse" was he thought I was mucking the hand. )

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one thing that I could never understand and I've seen it happen so many times. How can the dealer think I've mucked my hand face up on a completed board when the other player still hasn't tabled? To me this is either a lack of training as to what constitutes a live hand or dealer inattention or both (I suspect the answer is both). Maybe some casinos should spend more time giving their dealers refresher courses and emphasize that at showdown a tabled hand cannot be mucked by the dealer until all hands are tabled and if they do muck it then it comes out of their pay (can't wait for Psandman to chime in).

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Protecting your hand is not a "pre-emptive strike" -- it is appropriate procedure when playing live poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why bother protecting my hand if it isn't for the fact that it is widely accepted that dealers will erroneously kill hands that shouldn't be killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, you protect your hand for a lot of reasons and dealer error is only one of them. A sudden gust of wind; the guy in the seat next to you who at that moment reaches over to toke the dealer or to chip down and in the process your cards get jostled. You keep saying that those of us with many years' experience are always saying to protect your hand, as if that's a bad thing? Consider that in all our experience that we have seen a lot of unusual stuff happen and that we're playing for real money. Those chips have real value to us so we do what we can to not lose them to things that can be prevented.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't read most of the replies to this thread so excuse me if I'm repeating something or if my tangent has already been elaborated on. A dealer cannot muck a winning (tabled) hand, however, as we know based on the cards, you did not have the winning hand.

His hand was the last live hand and automatically can be awarded the pot because of that fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll never know if he had the winning hand or not because his opp never tabled his cards. He was simply awarded the pot and flashed a card to his friend next to him and they claimed it was an A.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
That's one thing that I could never understand and I've seen it happen so many times. How can the dealer think I've mucked my hand face up on a completed board when the other player still hasn't tabled?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a mistake. A sto exactly what was going on the dealers head . . . who knows. Maybe he got confused by the fact the player said something as he tabled the hand, maybe he misheard that, its fairly certain that the dealer knows what is supposed to happen.

[ QUOTE ]
showdown a tabled hand cannot be mucked by the dealer until all hands are tabled and if they do muck it then it comes out of their pay (can't wait for Psandman to chime in).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should it come out of the dealers money? This is the easiest error in the world to fix, I muck your tabled hand (that everyone saw since it was tabled) You say hey dealer why did you do that, I call the floor tell him made a mistake a mucked your hand after you tabled it he says its live and continue from there. This only becomes a real problem when you stand by as I muck your hand and push the pot to your opponent and wait for him to give up his hand and then object.

I have no problem paying for a mistake that made that is entirely my fault (I don't include things like an exposed card and now you say you would have won the pot types of mistakes). And the one time that I made that kind of mistake where it was almost entirely my fault I tried to pay the player, but he was convinced that I didn't make a mistake.

[AquaSwing]

I'm glad this thread has generated a fair amount of action and it appears to me that my story was not altered too much during the discussion.

I kick myself (in the nuts?) for not stopping the dealer immediately after my hand was mucked as that would have prevented the confusion. I do believe that villain had the A simply because he showed the one card to his friend. In all the years I've been playing the only reason you show one card to someone next to you is to confirm that you had the goods. If he didn't have the A his action would be to show both to his friend or muck. Of course it's possible he knew exactly what was going on and acted as such, but I think that's highly unlikely.

I assume that the only reason Harrah's gave me $40 was the fact that the tape confirmed what the story was and they knew damn well they couldn't award me the pot, so they give me some money and imply that the hand never happened. I'm sure the dealer got in a bit of trouble because our table was out of her rotation after that.