Observations from Official Poker Rankings

[BigAlK]

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Good, good, we're turning assumptions into something more concrete. I guess nobody else gives a rats a** or cares to refute so onwards we go.

To make a $36K living at MTT poker (no other sources of income ie. live games, cash games, the ponies or a career) we can say that the minimum required is:

1) 100%ROI
2) ABI around $30.00
3) 100 games per month
4) 3-3.5 hrs per day
5) 2 tables running on average

Obviously we can increase or decrease any of these to achieve the same result ie. 50% ROI and 200 gpm

Agree? Comments?

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That seems like a reasonable framework. It definitely fits within my experience.

The only thing I'd change is #4 to be "an average of 3-4 hours per day". Some tournaments you'll bust out the first hand, others you'll win. Those two tournaments would average about 3 hours. I think this item, more than anything, might vary a lot depending on style. Do you burn out quick or go deep vs go out near the bubble or go deep, etc. A lot depends on the site(s) you play, what kind of tournaments, etc. Game selection also impacts variance and everything else.

[Conan776]

Gee, my numbers are embarrassing. I feel the post about entertainment value, though. My attitude for a long time was it's cheaper than a bar tab.

One point: they count 45 top SnGs but nothing below that.

Another thing: often I'd be playing badly at the money tables but still want to play. So playing an hour and losing $5 wouldn't be a headache.

OTOH, I've been lurking at this site for a few weeks, and actually scored some decent wins the past few days. I appreaciate all the advice!

[BigAlK]

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Gee, my numbers are embarrassing. I feel the post about entertainment value, though. My attitude for a long time was it's cheaper than a bar tab.

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Nothing wrong with that attitude so long as you're playing for fun and are getting good value. Becoming a winning player is hard work and not worth it for everyone.

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One point: they count 45 top SnGs but nothing below that.


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Actually that varies from site to site. As a general rule they count all scheduled MTTs no matter how many entries (this could be a sat that only gets 7 entries). They also count SnGs above a certain size which varies (ie 18 and more on Full Tilt). This is explained in their FAQ.

[PoineDexter]

As to the number of hours... I calculated that using Rizens estimate that tourney avg is 1.5 - 2.0 hrs. I think he is referring to how many hours he is IN a tournament on average:
100 tourneys (2 tableing) = "50 tournaments" assuming we are always playing two at a time equals between:
1.5hr x 50 tourneys / 30 days = 2.5hrs/day
2.0hr x 50 tourneys / 30 days = 3.3hrs/day
I rounded up a little let's call it 3hrs per day. That's assuming someone plays 7 days a week. Part of the idea is that you have time for other things so if we want the lifestyle we assume we play 15 days a month on average for 6 hours a day? Seven days for 9 hours? Who knows. Knowing many poker guys they likely play 4 days a month but for 96 hours straight! lol

Just for fun let's look at someone we all know "shaundeeb"
This guy is great, 975 games on PS alone in the last 120 days! This guy plays other sites too, live games, traveling and cash games (who know's what else!). Let's assume we can extrapolate these 120 numbers to 365 days.

Summary: (rounded)
profit 40K
games 975
ABI $80
ROI 50% (53 actually)
So... annualized profit 120K
Using our numbers and factoring in the ratios we have:
games factor = 975/400=factor 2.43
ABI factor = 80/30=factor 2.66
ROI factor 50/100= factor 0.5
So... 2.43*2.66*0.5*36K (our making a living figure) = 114K
114K vs. 120K? Pretty close!!! lol

It's late so maybe I screwed this up but it was fun. By the way I think "shaundeeb" can like multi table 10-20 at a time. You would have to I guess!!!

[uglytuna]

My average buy in is $22, i'm ITM 19% and have +56% ROI on Full Tilt. I never spend more the 10% of my BR on any single game. I started with $100 and profited over 7K this year.

uglytuna

[illini43]

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I never spend more the 10% of my BR on any single game.

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No offense, but if you like $$$, you will be very unhappy if you spend this much on one tournament.

[PoineDexter]

I'm not saying it can't be done. This is good, actual numbers to deal with. Now we need number of games you played and number of tables (do you multi table). Let's see... for every dollar you spend (not including fees) you make about $1.50 and you are up 7K. To make 7K you had to spend $4,666. Average buy-in $20 = 233 or so games.

Close?

Now if you started with $100.00 and your ITM is near 20% you would bust 4 times and ITM once. In the one ITM if you don't place high enough your bankroll will be shot. If you dodge the variance in the early going you may be OK but what if you take 5 straight losses early? Busto... reload. It's not unusual for good players to go 10+ straight with $0.

[PoineDexter]

Exactly, what illini43 said...

I'm just trying to discuss the realities of BR, ABI, variance and the like. Skill level has NEVER been mentioned. This thread assumes you are in the highest percent in skill!!

[xPeru]

3-3.5hrs a day is junk. Av trny time is for each, but the trnys you go deep in and the sequential start times mean 6-8 hrs a day is more realistic. Good days last 12 hrs+, bad days 6.

[Conan776]

True true. I can donk off stacks with the best of them.

Hmmm... went above my limit to the PS $20 180. Was in the top ten half the time. Nope, donked out.

Made it all back in no time at the money tables though