How many outs is this?

[modulok]

7c 9h on a flop of 6s 8h 9d

[Nairb]

Well you have top pair but you have 8 outs to a straight(oesd) and 2 to make trips and 3 to make two pair. Assuming you are behind to a higher pair you have at most 13 outs to the best hand before turn and river.

[pzhon]

Why do you think you are behind? Outs are for when you are behind.

If you are behind an overpair of JJ or higher, then you have 3 outs to 2 pair, 2 more outs to trips, and 8 outs to a straight, for a total of 13 outs.

If you are behind a set, only the 8 outs to a straight are good.

If you are behind T7, you have 3 outs to tie, plus the running full houses and quads.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

*If* you are behind, you have the equivalent of a 14.5 out hand (8 for the OESD, 2 9's, 3 7's, and 1.5 for the back door flush. Not all of these outs will be good 100% of the time, so I'd treat this as maybe an 11-out hand if I thought I were behind.

Are you behind? We can't know, since we know nothing of the preflop action, your position, the profile of your opponents or anything else of importance.

[PhOeNiXpHrEaK]

[ QUOTE ]
1.5 for the back door flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately there are no backdoor flush possiblities, so do not count the 1.5, but rounding down like Kurn says to do is a must.

[modulok]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm learning to count outs from Mason/Slotboom's "Hold'em On the Come." I was studying OESDs but I was wondering how to count the value when one of your cards for the OESD pairs the extra flop card.

The recommendation from the book is to start with 8 outs for an OESD, but subtract an out if the board is either paired, suited, or if you are only using one card in your hand for the OESD. If the board pairs one of your cards, doesn't that effectively make only one of your cards participating in the draw now (since everyone shares the 9?) This is all, of course, assuming I thought I was behind (say a pocket pair).

Also, how does it affect your out count if the third flop card is close in value to your OESD? Say the third card in this example was a 5? or a 10?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1.5 for the back door flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately there are no backdoor flush possiblities, so do not count the 1.5, but rounding down like Kurn says to do is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[SunyD]

Hey I'm new here, but going to try to add my 2 cents.

From your above example, most of the time I would count that as 10 outs (four 5's, four 10's, and two 9's). I wouldnt count the three 7's as outs, because I'm not excited about making 2 pair only to have the board read 6,7,8,9.

To your recent question.. when the board pairs one of your cards, I think it takes away from the "exclusive-ness" of you making your straight. Yes, now only one of your cards can be used to make the straight now. It's much easier for a villain to get away from a board that reads 6,8,9,T (fearing a 7) as compared to 6,8,T (thinking you would have to have precisely 7,9). I think its always better to use both of your hold cards to make a straight.

If I understand your last question correctly, if the third card on the flop was a 5 or a 10 - you wouldve flopped the nut straight. You hold 7,9 on a board of 6,8,5 or 6,8,T.

[Zamees]

and in most situations, this is a perfect time to raise.