LOL Matt Cain and Brian Sabean, hell the Giants in general - Page 6

rwperu34 · #51 07-17-2007, 08:08 PM

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Sabean has 9 position players over 30 years old on his roster.

He is not a good GM.

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I guess Theo Epstein is terrible too, because I count 11 on his 2005 roster.

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I do recall the Red Sox having a top three farm system (and payroll) to support a ton of veterans on the team.

How're the Giants minor league teams?

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The Giants are paying the price right now for being in win now mode for the 15th straight season. You are right, they don't have the payroll to sustain that. What they had was Barry Bonds. They still have Barry Bonds, but he's not the huge advantage he once was. Sabean hasn't had a chance to retool or reload because he's had to use every available resource to put a team around Bonds. That's not the case anymore, probably even if Bonds comes back in '08. He did a good job from 1997-2004 and has, IMO, done as much as he could with what he's had to work with since. Let's see how he goes about getting this thing turned around.

I'm not going to complain about a farm system that has produced Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Noah Lowry over the last couple of years. Heck, the only notable Red Sox are Pedroia, Papelbon, and Youkilis.

The Giants may finally have their blue chip position prospect in 16 year old 3b Angel Villalona. He's a long way off though.

I know the Red Sox have dealt away a lot of talent in the last couple of years. Now imagine doing that for 15 straight years.

Reup Gang · #52 07-17-2007, 08:11 PM

the problem is he SUCKED at win now mode. he traded prospects for bad veterans. he signed bad veterans, giving up draft picks. he mismanaged prospects. lowry = 1st rounder in 01. cain = 1st rounder in 02. lincecum = first rounder in 06. and that's all you can put as a feather in his cap? wow.

slothinator · #53 07-17-2007, 08:18 PM

If the Giants have been in "win now" mode for 15 years, it isn't working. They have one WS appearance and a handful of playoff losses to show for it. If Sabean is able to turn this around, then I agree with you that he is indeed a good GM. But he has not shown that ability. He has brought in retread vets instead of developing minor league talent, or traded away that minor league talent in exchange for past their prime players. I understand wanting to build around the best player in the game in an attempt to win, but shouldn't that building have included quality players?

Reup Gang · #54 07-17-2007, 08:29 PM

and word is on villalona that he may never develop the power and will end up at 1b due to sheer size

john voight · #55 07-17-2007, 08:38 PM

every off season I am disappointed.
Time and time again, the Giants make bonehead moves.

I mean Zito was a nice pickup... But not a nice pickup when you are paying 38billion dollars!

Same goes for any old player they pickup. They seem to forget about the future, and just sign ppl for the now.

I am optimistic though. As time goes by, we are gonna be freeing up and opportunities to sign young players will arise.

Anyone who says Oakland management is worse then SF, is a fool. Across the bay the understand the value of money, and they understand how to evaluate talent.

kyleb · #56 07-17-2007, 08:44 PM

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He did a good job from 1997-2004 and has, IMO, done as much as he could with what he's had to work with since. Let's see how he goes about getting this thing turned around.

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No, he hasn't. There have been very few prospects to come out of the system that Sabean kept. Trading Nathan/Liriano/Bonser is a textbook play that both he and Ned Colletti follow to the letter - they trade their farmhand prospects for established veterans.

They both proudly think this is the right play. In fact, Colletti himself said that everyday he sees Loney/Kemp play, it gets harder to think about dealing them, to which I say "NO [censored] YOU IDIOT, YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO TRADE THEM."

You can't build a good franchise if THAT is how you think about your prospects. The Giants are another example of this.

EDIT: Also, Colletti was Sabean's AGM. Do you see what he does in Los Angeles? Yeah, that's exactly what Sabean taught him.

He's a [censored] moron.

DesertCat · #57 07-17-2007, 11:25 PM

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I'm not going to complain about a farm system that has produced Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Noah Lowry over the last couple of years. Heck, the only notable Red Sox are Pedroia, Papelbon, and Youkilis.

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Imagine what the Giants farm system would be like if Sabean didn't actively try to get rid of high draft picks by signing free agents? Sabean doesn't want to pay signing bonuses, so any chance to get rid of a pick he takes.

dontmesswithme · #58 07-18-2007, 04:28 PM

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Roberts is locked in at $6.5m over the next two years, a pretty good bargain.

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you're kidding right? as a giants fan he makes me want to vomit every time i hear his name.
i felt you were making good points until your itemized breakdown of the current roster. don't be delusional.

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that is actually a good deal.

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In a vacuum the deal is alright. When you take into account the Giants already had Randy Winn signed through 09 and Lewis and/or Schierholtz more or less ready to play, the Roberts signing was pretty terrible.

Also, 3-11 now. Not a very good start, but didn't really catch a break and could've gotten out of the 4th scoreless with a better fielding 1B.

rwperu34 · #59 07-18-2007, 08:41 PM

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the problem is he SUCKED at win now mode. he traded prospects for bad veterans. he signed bad veterans, giving up draft picks. he mismanaged prospects. lowry = 1st rounder in 01. cain = 1st rounder in 02. lincecum = first rounder in 06. and that's all you can put as a feather in his cap? wow.

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Actually, his track record is very good at dealing prospects.

rwperu34 · #60 07-18-2007, 08:42 PM

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I'm not going to complain about a farm system that has produced Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Noah Lowry over the last couple of years. Heck, the only notable Red Sox are Pedroia, Papelbon, and Youkilis.

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Imagine what the Giants farm system would be like if Sabean didn't actively try to get rid of high draft picks by signing free agents? Sabean doesn't want to pay signing bonuses, so any chance to get rid of a pick he takes.

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So, you are a team in win now mode. Do you want to pay a signing bonus or do you want to spend that money on someone who can help you now?