OT: Hiring Coaches

[ChicagoRy]

There's a lot of technically stuff that people, sometimes even I, think make a much bigger difference than it really does.

There are players I would consider having fairly silly leaks in the higher games that more than make up for it with insanely great instincts when it comes to hand reading. That is probably the most important thing in these games, by far, outside of crazy leaks like 5x PF on button and shoving over committed players with nothing, etc.

It works the opposite too, because there are players in the higher games with leaks that I recognize that make a lot of money with pretty low ROIs because they can't totally make up for it with hand reading and good instincts.

Anyways, I'm kind of sidetracking. The point I'm trying to make is there are other ways to improve at poker at like 90% the rate without spending half your bankroll. I've mentioned some ways in this thread as well as a ton of others.

FWIW I'm not against coaching, coaching is something I believe is useful in certain situations but I also believe it doesn't make sense in others.

The best situation to be coached in is when your winrate hasn't improved over a few hundred games, you're unhappy with parts of your game but you have a big bankroll and have found a coach that fits you perfectly that is offering you a very good deal on coaching. It seems you have found that and that is great, but it doesn't mean coaching is going to work for a lot of other people.

I get what you're saying but I think you're being too closed minded to different people's individual situation in terms of what they need from the game and the money and time they have to offer compared to their rate of improvement using other methods of learning.

[ChicagoRy]

[ QUOTE ]

all in all, i think the best way to get better, with out hiring a coach, is to study, study, play, win, study, loose, etc.etc.

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Also, this right here has always been my impression of what Cwar did (as well as others, but moreso him because it seems he's alluded to his amount of hard work with studying this game in posts and I've actually talked with him).

Again, not saying coaching is not worth it, just saying that I think it's insanely possible for two smart people to play HUSNG for the same amount of games, one hires a coach at 50 an hour one does not and the guy with the coaching ends up making a ton more money. And it's not a rarity IMO.

[cwar]

I think people learn in different ways, some ppl are independent enough that coaching probably wont help them as much (and might not be worth the expense), I think a big thing is though is that a lot of poker knowledge is very ambigious and a lot of times its hard to find a place to start. That being said I think the coach/student dynamic or just plain poker discussion with a person one on one about specific topics is a great way to learn because it forces you to solidify ideas so that you can explain them. The other thing is that working with someone FORCES you to study, youd be surprised how many players just dont study at all or get very lax about it at a certain point in their developement.

[PartyScout]

You make good point cwar...now im thinking after reading this post i need to learn much more as i am one of those you describe.We can all get relaxed about poker once we found a way to win thus missing the whole point we started.To learn and improve as a player

[jsnipes28]

My reccomendation, especially for smaller stakes guys who feel pretty sick paying 3x their hourly for coaching, is to find someone another regular at your level, seek him out, and try and exchange thoughts with them.

When I was coming up I started chatting w/ like 3-4 other regs (this was back at 2/4 party) and to this day they are some of my best poker friends and people that I go over hands with, and opinions I respect, the most.

I am really not that technically savvy, but for over a year now I usually go into the #msnl chat room in IRC to discuss hands and bullshtt before/during/after playing. Usually there are some great players (cts for one, as well as a ton of really solid msnl regs and ssnl guys too) in there too talk over hands and strategy.

I am not suggesting that you come and invade our room, because most likely 100+9 sng hands will be ignored(no offense), but perhaps you guys should start a #hunl room on IRC so everyone can talk and discuss hands in real time. I'd certainly keep the room open if this were to happen and try and offer advice.

[IronFly]

#headsup is open

[maxv2]

I've never been coached and I've done alright

[ChicagoRy]

[ QUOTE ]
My reccomendation, especially for smaller stakes guys who feel pretty sick paying 3x their hourly for coaching, is to find someone another regular at your level, seek him out, and try and exchange thoughts with them.

When I was coming up I started chatting w/ like 3-4 other regs (this was back at 2/4 party) and to this day they are some of my best poker friends and people that I go over hands with, and opinions I respect, the most.

I am really not that technically savvy, but for over a year now I usually go into the #msnl chat room in IRC to discuss hands and bullshtt before/during/after playing. Usually there are some great players (cts for one, as well as a ton of really solid msnl regs and ssnl guys too) in there too talk over hands and strategy.

I am not suggesting that you come and invade our room, because most likely 100+9 sng hands will be ignored(no offense), but perhaps you guys should start a #hunl room on IRC so everyone can talk and discuss hands in real time. I'd certainly keep the room open if this were to happen and try and offer advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with your first part about players around your level of play.

I've done this since I started HUSNGs and am very happy with where I've come.

Personally if I see a good deal for coaching and feel I need to work on some stuff and a coach has something they can offer I will go for it. It just seems that some people use it for a crutch or just want to imitate to an extent somebody's play, which in some cases is fine, but I feel building up your weaknesses and improving your own strengths will get you further than trying to copy other's.

[BCM11]

you guys are crazy with all this coaching stuff. A lot of poker talent is something that can't be taught once u get past the middle stakes. The way a lot of good players learn is by talking with a lot of players with equal or higher skill level, discussing hands, learning how to manage money, live right as a poker player etc. I have become friends with a lot of good players like JasonMac, ThePhenom919, Snorer, MaxV2, JMprodigy, and many more. I can say that just from discussing hands with these guys is where I've learned the most, not from "coaching".

[cwar]

Lots of good and great players have some major leaks in their game, learning explicitly and learning from someone who has a lot of talent are very different, not everyone is able to learn a winning strategy (or a winning enough strategy) on their own like you BCM, at least this has been my experience with the coaching I have done so far.