100NL: AKo floping top pair and getting called

[Tessai]

vilian is 40/10/1.88 over 100 hands

as soon as he calls the flop i think he has me beat! But since i am trying to adjust my game to 6handed games and i picked up some advices from this forum for similar situations -> i thought of calling him down, if he does not bet to hard

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $116.00
UTG+1: $105.95
CO: $167.00
Button: $60.70
Hero: $124.60
BB: $95.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4.5</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($14.5, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $15</font>, BB folds, CO calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($44.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $11.25</font>, Hero calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($67, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $33.75</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $134.5

this is a standart situation and i think playing like this will turn me in a loosing player!

should i have raised his turn bet, to know that i fold to a river bet?
should i be done when he calls my flop bet? (thats what i thought, because the board is so dry and he did not make stupid moves in the past)

[bilbo-san]

This is lol.

If you didn't want a flop call why did you bet? You're bluffing with TPTK?!?

Why do you think he has you beat when he called?

I'm sorry he showed you JT, btw. Raise the [censored] turn.

I usually check-raise this turn if I do not bet, even if he bets normally, but when he bets $12 [censored] dollars, he's got a big-ass "I is having draw" sign on his drooler head. Raise.

[Abramovic]

Why do you think youre beat on flop? Probably raises preflop with KQ (well within 10% of top hands), 33 is the only logical hand that has you beat.

Lead turn for 35 and prepare to shove river.

Also Id do slightly less on flop.

[Acevader]

Agree with bilbo, that's the exact hand I have him on. A 40/10 raises KQ first in from the cut-off and KK, QQ too. He might limp with 33 so that is a possibility but this hand honks of J10 in which case the river stinks like hell. Actually, having just seen his pointless turn bet I'm leaning more towards 33 - I can't understand why he'd bet that low with J10 (and risk being c/r) when he can take a free card. His turn bet must be for value since surely it can't produce a fold unless you have less than nothing!

Personally I'd bet the turn for around $33-35

[Tessai]

@bilbo-san

i make the flop bet to take the pot down (that does not work with a check or fold [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

i think he has me beat because we played together 100 hands he did no stupid things and neither i! So if i would have guessed what he gives me its: TPTK at least... but he calls, so i assume he has a draw or he has me me already beat

i agree that my turn play was very fishy and i agree with you that i should have checked raised the turn and if he calls be done with the hand but an raise would have cost me around 30-50$ probably thats same or more i thought i had to call the river


@ Acevader

when i bet the turn and he calls, what then? i would say i would be done with the hand, but if he throws some bucks in on the river i have to call until a 1/4 pot bet at least or?

and in the end it would have cost me more



@ all

the result was: vilian had KK and made trips

1)how can i loose less on that hand or is that just bad luck and every good player would have lost the same?

2) if i would have listen to my feelings ( i told a friend while i played this hand that "he has me beat, but i can´t fold this") i would have folded to the river bet.
But when i do this stuff i feel that i become a weak playe,r easy to be pushed of a hand and that would turn me into a loosing player for sure... so do you have any solution or thinking precess to solve this problem?

[Acevader]

If you bet the turn (33-35) and he pushes then you can fold as your call would have about 45-50% of the final pot and no way is AK winning that often to a turn raise here. If he calls then check the river. If he bets you have to factor in how often he'd do that with a hand you beat. Given the main draw hit, you have to question what he'd call you with on the flop and turn but now feel he has to bluff with rather than relying on showdown value. The answer is hardly anything, thus he is value betting and thus you can fold with a fair degree of confidence unless the price is stupid. Given the way he's playing this hand I think you go broke here a lot.

You were playing this guy and seemed to have some sense/instinct that you were beat and went into check-call mode which turned out to save you a lot of money. Your instincts count for more than the stats so I'd be happy about that.

[dd323]

He plays 40% of his hands, he could well have Q5s or K2s. The KQx board texture makes things alot fuzzier, and I don't know if fish suddenly call less at 100NL, then at 600NL, but my guess is that you should be easily be betting 3 streets with TPTK against this guy for value. It sounds like you see lots of monsters under the bed. If you bet the flop and turn, against this type i think you could block a 9 river, as the only legitimate draw got there.

One important thing to understand is that until a fish gives you reason to believe otherwise (or they have proven trappy in the past), you should be looking to play a fairly big pot if you have AK and hit an Ace or a King. Remember, you don't have an infinate number of pots with the bad players and you are trying to stack them before someone else gets them.

[dd323]

The problem is that you are being very results oriented. In other words, because he had KK and you were behind, you are going from there and trying to figure out how you could have saved $. Basically, against someone with these stats who limp-calls, this is a total cooler. If you got stacked here, you may not have played the hand optimally, but I wouldn't say you couldn't play it well and still get stacked.

BTW, in your response, you made it sound like, because he should think you are a solid player, he should never expect you to bet the flop without TPTK. If this is accuate of how you play, then you have a major problem with your play. In general, a flop bet at .5/1 is $6-8 a turn bet is usually closer to 20. Preflop almost no $ is in the pot. When I have AK and the flop comes K high, i usually want a call on the flop, not to just take it down. In fact I usually want my oppoenent to be drawing or something so they can call a bet that they are not getting the proper odds to call. The goal is not to win the most pots, it is to win the most money.

[Marwan]

ya I agree with that last paragraph.. calling is not strong, keep value betting/protecting your hand.. maniacs and donks flop as many sets/ get AA/KK as much as everyone else does.. but they also go broke with KJ/10-J, a lone Q etc more often.

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
@bilbo-san

i make the flop bet to take the pot down (that does not work with a check or fold [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, so you are bluffing.

You know that you have top pair, right? You know that you actually beat all the other top pair hands, right?

http://www.avenidagalleries.com/imag...ker%20hand.jpg

[ QUOTE ]
i think he has me beat because we played together 100 hands he did no stupid things and neither i!

[/ QUOTE ]

Having read this post, I find this statement impossible to believe, especially the bolded part.

[ QUOTE ]
i agree that my turn play was very fishy and i agree with you that i should have checked raised the turn and if he calls be done with the hand but an raise would have cost me around 30-50$ probably thats same or more i thought i had to call the river


[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. You wouldn't want to risk FIFTY [censored] DOLLARS!!!!