Online Cheating (What Do You Think?) - Page 2

The_Mac · #11 07-14-2007, 01:00 AM

I'm a terrible poker player (hoping to learn) but a good programmer, and I'll tell you that unless someone on the inside got paid a very large sum to add security holes, that a "peeker" is an urban legend.

Stagger_Lee · #12 07-14-2007, 02:07 AM

It's actually the opposite - the problem is when people on the inside get paid peanuts. Good old white collar crime is the biggest danger to your online funds.

ReverandRon · #13 07-14-2007, 03:00 PM

If you are going to be a gambler there's one rule you have to follow above all others. I'll give you the following scenario. Let's say you are an intelligent person and you absorb information and learn easily. You like to play poker so you read all of the major works and play in live games and get lots of experience. Then you play online and win for a couple of years. Let's say you play for five years and rack up two million dollars in wins in both live and online games. After 5 years something happens to your game. You no longer have the ability to win and you dump 750,000 back into the games over a 6 month period. Now you have to re-evaulate and decide if you want to continue to play or not. The main point of this essay is, "if you find yourself unable to beat the games for any reason, and it doesn't matter what it is, then you should seriously consider quitting." It doesn't matter if you are losing because you are stupid, you lost the ability to play, or you are being cheated. The end result is the same.

PantsOnFire · #14 07-14-2007, 04:03 PM

I work in computer network security. I don't know the exact configuration of online poker sites but my guess is that they have a very competent IT staff. Like any major online venture like banks and stock trading, security breachs can ruin the company. As such, they spend a lot of money and go to great lengths to protect themselves. These online sites charge a fairly hefty use fee called the rake and I'm sure it's something they don't want to risk losing.

To see anybody else's hole cards, someone would need to breach this security of an online site. Further, if someone did manage to do this, it would only last for a few hours at the most before they were shut out. And tracing the source is not usually impossible so you can be sure there would be consequences.

Realistically, I think online cheating could only happen two ways. First, somebody within the online company would have access to servers that you and I don't. Second, collusion is a reality.

However, even with online collusion, I think is difficult in two ways. It would take two very good players to make collusion profitable. People seem to think collusion gives you a magic pill when in fact, you need to be pretty savvy to make good use of that extra information. As well, the online sites have every single hand history and run a variety of algorithms to try to detect any monkey business.

Lastly, it is the responsibility of all online players to report any suspicious activity. The site can then focus on those targets with great detail.

The bottom line is that I doubt that cheating is hitting anybody's bankroll in a way that should concern us.

Baby Mantis · #15 07-14-2007, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I work in computer network security. I don't know the exact configuration of online poker sites but my guess is that they have a very competent IT staff. Like any major online venture like banks and stock trading, security breachs can ruin the company. As such, they spend a lot of money and go to great lengths to protect themselves. These online sites charge a fairly hefty use fee called the rake and I'm sure it's something they don't want to risk losing.

To see anybody else's hole cards, someone would need to breach this security of an online site. Further, if someone did manage to do this, it would only last for a few hours at the most before they were shut out. And tracing the source is not usually impossible so you can be sure there would be consequences.

Realistically, I think online cheating could only happen two ways. First, somebody within the online company would have access to servers that you and I don't. Second, collusion is a reality.

However, even with online collusion, I think is difficult in two ways. It would take two very good players to make collusion profitable. People seem to think collusion gives you a magic pill when in fact, you need to be pretty savvy to make good use of that extra information. As well, the online sites have every single hand history and run a variety of algorithms to try to detect any monkey business.

Lastly, it is the responsibility of all online players to report any suspicious activity. The site can then focus on those targets with great detail.

The bottom line is that I doubt that cheating is hitting anybody's bankroll in a way that should concern us.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has really made me feel more secure Thank You.

T3rminator4 · #16 07-14-2007, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The bottom line is that I doubt that cheating is hitting anybody's bankroll in a way that should concern us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is to some people. Have you not seen that Mr.Gatorade thread that has like 800 posts in it? Where he got his account closed and lost 70k. For supposedly cheating, when he says not. Im not saying he cheated or not. Im saying it effects people. Especially the people who lose to like bots and collusion etc.

doctorjae · #17 07-15-2007, 08:55 PM

ok, well i have a question then...maybe not about cheating per se, but about the randomness of the cards. with the sites being offshore so to speak, what sort of checks and balances (for lack of something better to call it) do you think are in place to ensure that they are in fact random? ...i mean it's one thing to say, yeah we use such-and-such random number generator and this-and-that algorithm, but can it actually be proven that the cards being dealt are really random?

i have often wondered if somehow, a group of nine of us 2+2ers were able to sit at the same table then we could actually record our hands and would know the outcomes. and over the course of what i'm sure would have to be an insane number of hands, we could see any patterns or lack thereof. of course we would play the hands as normal (i.e. no collusion/cheating, etc) but at the end of the session(s), the results could be analyzed.

i know the question will be asked as to what the sites would have to gain by this sort of thing, but that's not the point. i was just wondering...i'm a sceptical person by nature...anyhoo, i'll hang up and take the answer off air (for all us talk radio junkies)...

SmartBugger · #18 07-15-2007, 09:45 PM

Doctorjae, There are people who been playing and tracking their hands for years and nothing seems out of the ordinary. Do not assume it is not random because of some bad luck. While it is true that a computer can not produce a true-random sample, it is a moot point as far as you are concern.

No joke... one time at a Casino I got AA, KK, AA, then hit a Ace high flush ALL IN A ROW. I busted 1 person and 3X my stack. ANYTHING can happen .... I've seen a guy hit quads twice in 5 mins..... it is so damn rare but basically, just play your best and don't bet on "I am bound to hit... I haven't had anything in the last 20 hands"

And so far, real casinos have given me my worst bad beats. I flopped a straight flush, and got runner-runner out by a better straight flush. I really wouldn't be surprise if someone runner-runner a royal flush =p Anything can happen.

Baby Mantis · #19 07-15-2007, 09:53 PM

Actually Online is more random due to the fact that B&M dealers may get in a hurry to deal the next hand (because house wants as many rakes in an hour as possible). So they may end up not shuffling the cards as well as expected and may end up with clumps of cards. Which may explain SmartBuggers streak of AA, KK, AA, and A flush.

Hope this helps, and/or eases any concerns for you Doctorjae

OziBattler · #20 07-15-2007, 10:38 PM

honestly, its probably better to spend your time improving your game than worrying about a sites RNG or any big conspiracy theories about riggedness.

Collusion is probably the most likely form of cheating but probably doestn happen as nearly as often as some will have you believe and most colluders probably wouldnt do it well anyway....anyway Harv put it better than I could so just read his post again [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]