1/2 This is a Very Interesting River Spot

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
on this board a big hand figures to bet more on the river

[/ QUOTE ]People never make suck bets here with a J?

Because they sure do at lower levels.

I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative. You are way better at teh poker than me. I've just seen so many bad players make tiny bets with a big hand, and they weren't really paying attention to the action/board. More like "ZOMG TRIPS- I better get paid off!!!!"

I agree that if he had a J then he played the hand badly, but then again, I think calling your river raise with QQ is pretty bad too . . .

[myheadhurts]

[ QUOTE ]
his range changes dramatically from the turn to the river, guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does villain put you on Rent?

EDIT: Without being results orientated, obv.

[Renton]

who can say, or even care.

You need to have reads on players before you start using "what does he think of me?" as an excuse to pass up obvious river value.

imo

[myheadhurts]

[ QUOTE ]
who can say, or even care.

You need to have reads on players before you start using "what does he think of me?" as an excuse to pass up obvious river value.

imo

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not river value until proven so, and what he thinks you have is obviously a huge factor in that.

e.g. some donks will bet small with a jack to try to induce a call from missed overs, if he puts you on that.

Or AJ wants to get raised by a weaker jack, so bets small.

Note that we are 200bbs deep, so a faux blocking bet is more useful that usual, due to the huge value left behind.


Having said that, you have your read thats he's a donk. You think he will call off a full buyin on a paired, 3 flush board getting 1.5:1 with a weak overpair. You base this entirely on the fact that he minraised pf. Does that sum up the position?

[Renton]

well im not saying theres mountains of value here.

I do however believe that an unknown at low limit cash games who minraises in early position with a deep stack can be fairly accurately assumed to be a donk, or at least a reasonably weak player. Reasonably weak players don't fold overpairs in 3bet pots.

[myheadhurts]

[ QUOTE ]
well im not saying theres mountains of value here.

I do however believe that an unknown at low limit cash games who minraises in early position with a deep stack can be fairly accurately assumed to be a donk, or at least a reasonably weak player. Reasonably weak players don't fold overpairs in 3bet pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly true for 100bb stacks. Questionable on paired, 3 flush boards when 200bb deep and facing an overbet all in.

[Renton]

no............

Not even good players fold overpairs in 3bet pots for 100bb stacks. And rightly so.

Bad players don't understand deepstack logistics, and therefore also felt overpairs in 200bb 3bet pots.

Also note that a 200bb 3bet pot isn't all that different from a 100bb one.

Consider how feltable weak overpairs can often be in a 100bb raised pot. Well, in a way, a 100bb reraised pot plays similar to a 30 something bb raised pot, since the stakes are tripled preflop. So, a 200bb 3bet pot is associatively like a 60bb raised pot. This is why overpairs are so incredibly tough to play in 3bet pots with deep stacks, because they are on the cusp of being feltable/foldable.

TBH i didn't so much expect a call from QQ as from KK. Also i was considering a weaker size raise, but i didn't want to set myself up to make a decision getting like 5:1 on his shove where im always beat.

[Renton]

also, semantics perhaps, but river is not even a pot size raise, and he's getting over 2:1 on his call, not 1.5:1.