River bluff in 3 way pot...

[ggbman]

2/4, effective stacks are 400. UTG and button are both OK regs, UTG is straightforward and the button is pretty aggro. UTG limps, i limp Ac4c in the CO, button makes it 14, blinds fold, we both call. Flop is

K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

We check the PFR button, who checks behind. Turn is an offsuit J. UTG bets 24, i call, button calls. The river is an offsuit 9, UTG bets 40 into 120-130 pot, I make it 150. Eh?

[True]

raise preflop,

you can lead the flop, raise the turn (unless his lead is only a set in which case your river raise makes no sense). River is bad given that you would have raised the turn with any decent hand. Given that you both called and UTG first again I don't think you make him fold much.

TQ is the only hand that hit the river apart from perhaps 99, and your play preflop and on the turn make these hands less likely.

[ggbman]

I think i personally would rather try to play a multiway pot thank raise and UTG limper so im fine with PF. Obvioulsy leading the flop is an option, but with an aggro button i would rather c/r him if UTG folds to his bet or just see a turn in a 3 way pot. Anyway i'm fine with how i got to the river... and if there were a ton of hands i could rep at this point than it would be a relativley obvious bluff raise IMO since the buttons range is so weighted toways AJ, QJ, or JT. (Chime in if you disagree obv) So given that i can usually get him to fold, he is actually a plus here since i think most 2/4 players think more about the fact that im raising in a protected pot with the PFR raiser behind than the fact that he should be irrelevant a huge part of the time here and thus he might weight my range more to a legit hand like QT, K9s, J9s, etc... That plus the fact that i just dont think he ever has better than KT after the river. Still bad?

[Requin]

Button seems bad from bet-sizing, and you said UTG was straight forward, so I really don't like bluffing here. Also CRing a weird/bad aggro button on the flop seems much worse than just donking it.

[True]

I like flop play a lot, I think donking is bad for several reasons. I only listed it as it is a possible option, not because I like it.

I disagree about preflop, I think that UTG will often fold or call and fold most flops playing a kind of "fit or fold" style poker so it's hugely profitable, probably more so than limping. If the button is 3-betting you all the time then I would start to agree, but getting in a raised pot oops vs the pfr is going to be probably as tough. It's good for shania also. I very much admired your limit style and writings so obviously like to hear your thoughts.

On the river his range (that beats you) is, 22, 66, and QT,KJ. I am guessing that you think his bet size means that these should be disregarded? From his point of view, what is in your and buttons range that would call a pot sized bet on the river?
, he may be weak leading to induce a bluff like this. He may not be advanced enough to expect this as you both have to have weak made hands and may not be willing to bluff with them. Anyway thats a load of ramblings, enjoy.

[yoshi86]

raise PF.

as played, fold the river. your line looks so weird that it will probably be looked up

[DJ Sensei]

not worried about the button too much

river looks alright (i might make it 200 straight for a little extra FE), though the fact that the flush draw missed might cause people to overlook the OESD that just got there and look you up light.

also definitely depends on whether this guy is the type to make real blocking bets and fold to a raise, or put out fake blocking bets to induce the raise.

[ggbman]

Yah i don't give give the guy credit for making a blocking bet to induce a raise, however i suspect that as true mentioned, sometimes he focues on clubs missing and calls with KT or w/e. Anyway in the hand, i make it 150 and the button insta min-raised and we both folded. The button then started LOLING in the chat about how he misclicked with AJ, so i thought i'd get some input on the play.