Misguided aggressive checkraise?

mmbossman · #1 07-13-2007, 04:04 PM

I realize Js aren't the best hand to be trying to slowplay, but both my opponents had tended to be agressive w/ large stacks, and their willingness to call, but not reraise discounted the possibility of a higher PP. If it had been checked through, I'd have re-evaluated on the turn, but as it stands, is this move ok?

Edit for more info: 60/90 players remaining in micro doublestacked tourney.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t80 (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button (t6800)
SB (t7650)
BB (t2420)
UTG (t5305)
Hero (t2430)
MP1 (t8450)
MP2 (t3510)
CO (t11065)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t350, MP1 calls t350, 2 folds, Button calls t350, 2 folds.

Flop: (t1170) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t400, Button calls t400, Hero raises to t2080 (All-In), MP1 folds, Button calls t1680.

Turn: (t5730) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)
.

River: (t5730) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t5730

illini43 · #2 07-13-2007, 05:36 PM

This looks good as long as you have a good idea that one of the players behind you is going to bet.

I also don't mind betting ~650 on the flop and then either getting it all-in on the flop or pushing the turn if a safe card hits.

If the players behind you are aggressive and bet when checked to, I have no problem c/r here. If you were inbetween these players, I think I would bet every time (i.e. you are in MP1 instead of UTG+1).

Villians almost never have QQ+, and usually hold two overcards, a flush draw, or a pair of nine. You are ahead of this range, so get your chips in the best way possible.

mmbossman · #3 07-13-2007, 06:05 PM

Thanks illini, I've been thinking about this some more, and it's looking like a better play more and more to me. When I made the play I didn't realize (at least consciously), that I was sandwiching them, however I was pretty confident that I'd only get one caller. And after pokerstoving it, found that I was ahead of everything except two suited overcards, where I was basically a coin flip. So overall I'm pleased with it, but does anyone else have insight?

WuTank · #4 07-13-2007, 06:52 PM

I like it alot.
Going for the crai against 2 people here is imho best line possible.
You have perfect stack size left,have a strong hand beating both their ranges hard.No one can peel this flop givin stack sizes against you if you bet out(you have like 1,4k behind if you make a 1/2 pot bet in a pot of 2,3k with 1 caller)
Usual you take the pot down on the flop, which is fine since you have gained value from their bluff bets / calls.

well played OP

Downbylaw11 · #5 07-14-2007, 12:54 AM

if you think its the best way to get a bet out of them, then its fine. against 2 players, its not as smart though, especially on a 2 flush board. if they hold KQ AK, AQ of clubs, and they bet and you check raise, theyre basically getting amazing odds to gamble and will probably be forced to call you

AMT · #6 07-14-2007, 01:05 AM

why raise pf over 4x?

looks ok with reads.

mmbossman · #7 07-14-2007, 01:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why raise pf over 4x?

looks ok with reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Table had been fairly lagish, but you're right, a 3.5 to 4 would have done just fine, and it would have cut down on the odds that a high suited hand would have later on. Good catch.

gibler321 · #8 07-14-2007, 01:42 AM

given the reads that you gave us (both aggressive players), i understand checking the flop. however, given that you raised pretty big preflop, then are check raising all in on flop indicates that you have a pretty big hand.

the play i like best is betting 550-800 on the flop, then auto shoving turn.

WuTank · #9 07-14-2007, 06:59 AM

gibler from what hand you get more value than fromm the line played?

gibler321 · #10 07-14-2007, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
gibler from what hand you get more value than fromm the line played?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, if he checks here, and they check behind, he won't get value at all. if we check, we give them free card to hit A K Q or flush

if he bets here on the flop, he can take down the pot, or get more $ into the pot.