How do the casinos calculate their BJ edge for the purpose of comps?

[uclaben]

I've heard that the average hold on a blackjack table is in the 2-4% range. However, playing perfect basic strategy with decent rules, you're giving up only half a percent or so to the house. Using a simple counting system (aces and fives, for example), you can get to break-even or just above.

Now, we all know that comps are essentially calculated as a percentage of the house's expected take on your play. For blackjack, is that calculated on a 4% edge, a 2% edge, or a .5% edge? Does the pit boss note whether you're a good player? Thanks in advance for the info from anyone who's in the know...

[playersare]

comp systems (whether paper rating slips or computer-based) do have the capability of factoring in player 'skill' as well as speed of the game (full table vs. heads-up), but I don't know how often the floorperson actually enters those in.

the gross house edge on all blackjack games has been reported to be somewhere slightly above 2% long term. however I don't know if that figure does or does not include the increase vig generated from newer conditions like 6:5 single deck, more side bets and elimination of better rules overall (such as dealer stand of soft 17).

general rule of thumb has been to figure comp rate of about 20% of your average bet per hour. however, I've also read that comps are based on the casino willing to give back 40% of your theoretical loss in the same amount of time. if the house edge is calculated based on a 2% vig in blackjack, that's closer to 50% of your average bet per hour, and I've found in my experience that the 20% average bet figure is more accurate. therefore I think the computer sets the house edge in the computer closer to 1%, perhaps even a touch below. the textbook "Casino Operations Management" even suggests a universal vig rate of 0.73% to cover all player skills and game speeds. this also makes it fairly close to the original 20% avg bet rate that I hypothesized. you might also read the book "Comp City" by Max Rubin which is somewhat outdated, but still useful in its main ideas.

the other reason I doubt that the casino uses gross theo on the game itself to calculate comps, is because blackjack has a lot of overhead cost compared to a slot machine. you have to buy a table, clean and replace the felt every once in a while, exchange decks every 8-hour shift, hire a dealer, floorperson, security for chip fills.

[uclaben]

So assuming the casino sets the theoretical vig at 1%, and assuming that they give you back 40%, and assuming that they're properly accounting for the rate of speed, they are essentially refunding you 0.4% of each bet in comps? Is this true?

In other words, if you can get your EV down to -0.4%, you can "break even" with comps (assuming you value a casino dollar the same as a real dollar)?

[playersare]

yes, blackjack can be 'breakeven' if you value the return in comps appropriately with what they are worth to you.

keep in mind that not all casinos give comps in the form of a "dollars" balance that you can spend discretely at your own will. for certain places, you will simply have to ask if you have enough for "X" and they will look at the computer and see if you have more than "X". even if you do, you have no idea how much "X" is left over, if any. at some old school casinos, a floorperson or host can utilize their own power of the pen, but this is becoming increasingly rare. some big corporations like Harrah's won't even issue host-independent comps until your entire "dollar" balance is already depleted.

[uclaben]

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yes, blackjack can be 'breakeven' if you value the return in comps appropriately with what they are worth to you.

keep in mind that not all casinos give comps in the form of a "dollars" balance that you can spend discretely at your own will. for certain places, you will simply have to ask if you have enough for "X" and they will look at the computer and see if you have more than "X". at some old school casinos, a floorperson or host can utilize their own power of the pen, but this is becoming increasingly rare. some big corporations like Harrah's won't even issue host-independent comps until your entire "dollar" balance is already depleted.

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Yup, I understand all that. I'm a recreational player, but I go to Vegas a lot - I'm just trying to figure out if it could be worth it for me to give the casinos (mostly MGM-Mirage properties) some decent action in order to get hooked up in the future. Looks like it probably could be, if I'm willing to deal with the variance.

Too bad there's no way to "break even" at craps, lol. I'd much rather play that for hours at a time.

[playersare]

MGM players club is one of those systems where you will have to ask what you can get for "X" based on your table play. they only have a tangible points system for slots/VP, and that's only to determine your cashback. you cannot necessarily view your comp "score" at will, you'll have to ask someone who works there to show you, or wait for offers online or through regular mail.

many higher-end strip properties also have the weird stipulation that you need to bet at least $25 per hand for the floorperson to even bother swiping your card in the first place. I think that's crap but they print it right on your comp card and/or the T&C pamphlet, so rules is rules.

I would definitely suggest getting chummy with a pitboss or casino host for more details before starting your BJ comp quest at MGM.

[punkass]

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many higher-end strip properties also have the weird stipulation that you need to bet at least $25 per hand for the floorperson to even bother swiping your card in the first place.

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When I visited MGM Grand back in Feb, this was the case. I sat at at $10 table with 200 bucks, and started betting 10. The pit just pushed my card back to me stating that in order to be rated, I'd have to bet $25/hand.