a quick thought

[2OuterJitsu]

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[No one believes that there should be no property rights over land? More generally, I think a lot of people (myself included) would believe that the only property rights we have are the ones the state guarantees to protect as determined through a democratic process. I don't believe in any sort of inherent property rights.

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So if the state decides (as in the past) that you can be bought and sold, you’ll quiesce since you don’t inherently own you.

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But this is all from a previous discussion, and not responsive to the general point that I'm making that the AC view of rights coercively restricts the behavior of other people.

You can't respond to this by saying, "You don't have the right to engage in the behavior I am coercing you from engaging in," because it is only you, not me, that believes I don't have that right. Such a response is simply choosing to enforce your morality ahead of mine in same coercive manner that the state does.

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AC view of rights does not coercively restrict behavior. ALL PROPERTY RIGHTS restrict behavior, that is the nature of rights. My right to punch ends at the tip of your nose, in a state as well as AC. The difference in AC; the moral difference, is with <u>personal</u> liberties. If you don’t believe property should be owned then don’t own property, but you don’t have the moral right to force every one to give up their property. The ACist believes property can be owned, yet no one is forcing you to own property.

You have the moral right to restrict yourself according to your beliefs, but not anyone else. The State does this and more. My belief in owning property does not restrict you from not owning property in accordance with your beliefs.

As an ACist if you’re standing on my lawn and I don’t want you there, I’ll build a fence, buy a dog, post a guard, etc. I’m not going to automatically determine that on my property anything goes. Not because it doesn’t, but because I can’t without violating YOUR right to YOUR body. I will not assault you, unless you are actually causing me harm, or to prevent you from being harmed. You can’t stand on my lawn forever.

All rights restrict behavior AC restrict them equally.

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No, I don't believe in any absolute rights.

However, I also don't believe that "democracy" demands that our entire social system be instantly responsive to the whim of the majority. We have a constitutional process of representation, checks and balances, judicial review, amendment, etc., to assure that the "democratic" process doesn't do long-term damage to society to satisfy short-term desires. It obviously doesn't always work well, and nations disagree about exactly how to structure this process, but it is more or less the right idea.

Fundamentally, the basis for the legitimacy of the state, the constitution, democracy, and whatever rights are guaranteed under it, is that people like it. They are happier with a state than without it. If they weren't, at some point they would revolt and we would have something different.

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I wonder if you include Native Americans, and African Americans in your definition of "people" or are you really that myopic.