10/20 live. Go ahead and laugh - Page 3

Maliant · #21 07-09-2007, 12:58 AM

3 bets is max raise? that's kinda weak.

jjshabado · #22 07-09-2007, 01:02 AM

There were 4 bets put in preflop.

Maliant · #23 07-09-2007, 01:16 AM

Holy [censored] completely missed the MP cap! I was scared enough by the UTG raise and UTG + 1 re-raise, and in that situation I probably would of ditched Queens.

If action were just UTG raise and UTG + 1 re-raise would you still muck queens?

jjshabado · #24 07-09-2007, 01:24 AM

The decision to muck QQs preflop is purely read-based. Obviously my default action is to raise/re-raise.

If I had the right read, I'd muck them assuming I wasn't getting odds to play for a set. Like I previously said I know one lady that I would muck KKs to on a re-raise from her. Its 99.5% she has AA, and 0.5% she has A4 and misread her hand.

StrictlyStrategy · #25 07-09-2007, 06:34 AM

For the record these Queens are not suited.

jjshabado · #26 07-09-2007, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For the record these Queens are not suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hah. I put the 's' because they're plural. I don't really know why.

TheSeeker03 · #27 07-10-2007, 02:41 PM

Since you asked for it, the conclusion:

I've left out two important details about the hand.

Detail 1: UTG+1 had only $50 left in his stack, but I only noticed that after I folded because his hands were blocking his stack. This opens up his range significantly, as many people in this situation are just looking to get all the money in and leave.

Detail 2: After capping MP1 said "might as well cap". He sounded genuine. At the time I decided not to let his words influence.

I folded, BB folded, UTG folded!

2 players. Flop is Q rag rag. UTG+1 had 44. MP1 had KQs and it held up.

I think my key mistake was not noticing how short stacked UTG+1 was. If I noticed that, I wouldn't have given him credit for reraise.

aK13 · #28 07-10-2007, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since you asked for it, the conclusion:

I've left out two important details about the hand.

Detail 1: UTG+1 had only $50 left in his stack, but I only noticed that after I folded because his hands were blocking his stack. This opens up his range significantly, as many people in this situation are just looking to get all the money in and leave.

Detail 2: After capping MP1 said "might as well cap". He sounded genuine. At the time I decided not to let his words influence.

I folded, BB folded, UTG folded!

2 players. Flop is Q rag rag. UTG+1 had 44. MP1 had KQs and it held up.

I think my key mistake was not noticing how short stacked UTG+1 was. If I noticed that, I wouldn't have given him credit for reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop being stupidly results oriented.

BigBadBabar · #29 07-10-2007, 03:50 PM

also in your post you said you have a sick read that one of them 100% has aa or kk, so what are we supposed to do?

Man of Means · #30 07-10-2007, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think my key mistake was not noticing how short stacked UTG+1 was. If I noticed that, I wouldn't have given him credit for reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop being stupidly results oriented.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-bettor being short stacked or all-in is relevant because it changes how the hand will play out postflop. Hero probably won't have to pay as many bets to see a showdown. The main pot is protected; the side pot is small.

And the shortstack All-in also may change how the capper ("might as well") responds preflop - if he is the type who isolates limpers with A9, KT, and 66 he may be isolating somewhat light here as well.

However, you are correct that it is hindsight- and results-oriented to consider these things; the information we had in the original post (the table is playing ultra passive preflop) is the information OP had at the time of decision - so this still points toward folding QQ.