Bad Turn Bluff Raise?

[Tryptamean]

I think he will fold his 88-JJ type hands, but I'm not sure how much this particular player will be playing those hands this way.

[milesdyson]

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I hate your play and I can't understand what your trying to achieve. His raise on turn says he likes his hand and even if he don't have a queen he has something that probably is better than your fours. I can't see him folding a better hand here and if you think he is on a bluff with AK, calling down is a better line.

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on Q74Q, AK has 3 king outs, 2 ace outs, 3 seven outs to half the pot. you definitely want him to fold an effective 6.5 outs here.

[Gurravasa]

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I hate your play and I can't understand what your trying to achieve. His raise on turn says he likes his hand and even if he don't have a queen he has something that probably is better than your fours. I can't see him folding a better hand here and if you think he is on a bluff with AK, calling down is a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]
on Q74Q, AK has 3 king outs, 2 ace outs, 3 seven outs to half the pot. you definitely want him to fold an effective 6.5 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ] Off course but thats if your sure you're up against AK and you're not. Wow that was an stupid post miles...

[yourface]

how so?

someone said that if we are up against AK it is better to call down, and miles corrected them. villain would be making a pretty big ftop mistake by folding AK in such a big pot if he knew our hand

[UtzChips]

"He folded, but I think it was a bad play, I just wanted to post it because it was something I don't usually do."

Is it really? I think we can be fairly certain that he had an underpair to the Qs and bought your line when you ck/raised the turn. Only question is, is it profitable long term considering the range he would be starting out with.

[milesdyson]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate your play and I can't understand what your trying to achieve. His raise on turn says he likes his hand and even if he don't have a queen he has something that probably is better than your fours. I can't see him folding a better hand here and if you think he is on a bluff with AK, calling down is a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]
on Q74Q, AK has 3 king outs, 2 ace outs, 3 seven outs to half the pot. you definitely want him to fold an effective 6.5 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ] Off course but thats if your sure you're up against AK and you're not. Wow that was an stupid post miles...

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never said his play was right, just that you were wrong.

[jstill]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate your play and I can't understand what your trying to achieve. His raise on turn says he likes his hand and even if he don't have a queen he has something that probably is better than your fours. I can't see him folding a better hand here and if you think he is on a bluff with AK, calling down is a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]
on Q74Q, AK has 3 king outs, 2 ace outs, 3 seven outs to half the pot. you definitely want him to fold an effective 6.5 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ] Off course but thats if your sure you're up against AK and you're not. Wow that was an stupid post miles...

[/ QUOTE ]

see these are the only posts of yours I really have a problem with gvasa, I know u know the game and I dont think your a bad player after reading more of ur posts (in fact several times Ive written something and uve disagreed uve actually changed my opinion on a hand) but...

u say something that is technically/ theorectically incorrect, and then someone tactfully rebutes it undeniably (here that we would actually want AK to fold) and u instantly flip flop and say " oh i know that obviously, ur an idiot not me" and basically lay the foundation to provoke a flame war while all the while mistinterpreting what hes saying. This isnt the first time pretty much this exact occurance has transpired.

just drop the ego a bit and u ll be able to have discussions in threads without getting so defensive. We're all wrong on occassion, its fine when that happens, and when it comes to light u shouldnt feel the need to cover your tracks and try to resolidify ur "reputation or credibility" esp not with juvenille behavior esp when uve said ur quite a bit older than most of us.

Yes u are probably right this line is -EV, but u happened to be wrong on the minor point that we are better off just calling vs AK here. No that is not an arguement with enough value to make 3betting better than calling or folding to this raise, which Miles never alluded to in his comment, simply that ur argument against the line was flawed (which u did say something incorrect and then when he pointed it out u instantly flip flipped, said u knew that and then reacted in typical fashion with insults). And in these forums the arguments of why we take an action are atleast as important to the discussion as simply stating what the correct action is, for all involved.

[jstill]

my opinon of this hand is that bet 3betting to win this pot here costs 2 bbs after his raise (when his range is stronger) I just dont think he has a hand PP below Qs AND folds enough to justify the investment and if he has some draws he has pretty decent equity likely (15 outs or so) so pushing vs that range is mostly just increasing variance and putting urself in ambiguous spots on the blank rivers.

plus u think hes decent based on stats he really shouldnt be fsdr PPs here.