Knife VS Bat, who wins?

[mbillie1]

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I love how some people in this thread think the guy with the bat has NO mobility. They keep saying you only get 1 swing with a bat then the knife guy is going to cut them to pieces. I guess the bat guy is supposed to swing, hit the knife guy in the arm/shoulder and then just stand there while the knife guy charges him?? WTF!!!

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Once you're in tight you can grab the guy and keep him close. Not for 30 seconds or anything, but long enough to get several seriously damaging, potentially fatal blows while his weapon is relatively much less damaging. Obviously the guy can get away, but it's more likely he'll absorb way more damage during the close-range stuff than he'll dish out in the transition from close to long range.

A random example: watch MMA, or any street fight really... most fights end up in grappling (in fact most fights end up on the ground, which is why jujitsu and other grappling based martial arts are so much more useful than other), I mean it's not given that once range is closed it will stay closed. But keeping someone 2-4 feet away when they are trying to get in close is probably singularly the most difficult thing to do in a fight. Belt requirements in various martial arts are routinely "stay on your feet against a grappler", etc. It's very difficult to maintain range.

[russellmj]

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But who's going to keep charging at you while you retreat and pummel them with bat swings? It just doesn't seem like your strategy would work against any remotely competent or thinking opponent.


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I would. You simply cannot swing the bat back and forth fast enough. Even if you connect, I'm inside now. Once inside, it's over for the batter. O-VER.

[SHOwnsYou]

The idea behind swinging and moving is the bat attacks keep the knife guy a distance. Obviously it is easy for me to say this is the case, just as easy in fact, as it is for you guys to say knife guy keeps charging. The final result is probably just a bunch of variance with the favorite being the more tenacious participant.

[mbillie1]

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The idea behind swinging and moving is the bat attacks keep the knife guy a distance. Obviously it is easy for me to say this is the case, just as easy in fact, as it is for you guys to say knife guy keeps charging. The final result is probably just a bunch of variance with the favorite being the more tenacious participant.

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No dude the whole point is that the knife guy wins at least 3/4 times, haven't you been paying attention [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

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Blarq - I am assuming some non-lethal knife blow just as you are assuming somewhat glancing bat contact. I understand the knife is much easier to land a lethal blow with, but you can't act like a hit isnt going to throw off the skills of the knife man.

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Oh, of course. It's just that the knife man needs virtually no skills in the first place.

Notice that virtually any time skill has been mentioned here it's in regard to a batter being able to strike harder and a knife man being able to close quicker. People pretty much aren't even bothering to talk about the knife man's skills with the knife itself, because it hardly even matters. Once you're incredibly deadly, the move to incredibly deadlier doesn't matter much. Anyone with a knife is incredibly deadly, and that's plenty good enough.

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Obviously jumping back everytime and not varying how far/which direction would leave you open for exploitation. It would also require bat swings that aren't as powerful, but enough to keep your opponent at bay.

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It would also take a lot of coordination in a way people are not at all used to moving, be pretty ungainly regardless, and slow and easy to time.

Also, if your bat swings are not powerful, they're not going to keep anybody at bay. Not when there's the chance to stab you. Expecting a guy to stay at your range pretty much as long as you like while never getting in his own is pretty much expecting to fight a suicidal image. You can't expect a guy to fight in a way in which it is not possible for him to win. People just aren't that dumb -- even dumb ones.

[Blarg]

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But who's going to keep charging at you while you retreat and pummel them with bat swings? It just doesn't seem like your strategy would work against any remotely competent or thinking opponent.


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I would. You simply cannot swing the bat back and forth fast enough. Even if you connect, I'm inside now. Once inside, it's over for the batter. O-VER.

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Exactly. Since not getting inside is basically conceding your own death without a real fight to speak of, I'm charging in so I at least have a chance to live. And when I get there, until I'm unconscious, it's stabbing time. I really don't care what you do to me; I'm not stopping until I'm dead. And if you run, I chase.

[SHOwnsYou]

Aren't as power =/= not powerful. Also, bat swings are intimidating to a potential attacker especially considering the average person probably cannot estimate the force behind a bat swing and determine that he can overcome being hit by it.

I am in no way saying bat is a lock, in fact I figure knife has the advantage, but I think it is important not to dismiss the bat as quickly as you guys are doing

[Blarg]

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lol, i love how this topic always gets lots of discussion

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I love how some people in this thread think the guy with the bat has NO mobility. They keep saying you only get 1 swing with a bat then the knife guy is going to cut them to pieces. I guess the bat guy is supposed to swing, hit the knife guy in the arm/shoulder and then just stand there while the knife guy charges him?? WTF!!!

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No, the knife guy doesn't let the batter get in a free swing without charging unless he's retarded, in which case there was no real fight anyway. He charges before the swing if he can, and if not, during the swing.

Bat guy does not get a free swing while knife guy poses at a distance. There is no charge to be done after the first swing. The gap is being closed during the first swing, and the bodies are already on top of each other or extremely close together. A stab or slash may already have landed. More are coming. More bat swings coming? Doubtful, and if so, they'll be coming weak and from a guy who's being cut up.

[Blarg]

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Aren't as power =/= not powerful. Also, bat swings are intimidating to a potential attacker especially considering the average person probably cannot estimate the force behind a bat swing and determine that he can overcome being hit by it.

I am in no way saying bat is a lock, in fact I figure knife has the advantage, but I think it is important not to dismiss the bat as quickly as you guys are doing

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I'm not dismissing it. If I were dismissing it, I would be saying the bat, being so much slower than a knife, would be far easier to time, so the guy most likely to get off the first blow is the guy with the knife. And if that's the case, the first blow of the bat, if it comes at all, will be trivial, and the bat guy will be pretty much blown out of the water by either the first knife attack or all the subsequent knife attacks to come.

Guy with the knife IS much more mobile, fast, and deceptive than guy with the bat.

But I'm still assuming the guy with the bat gets off a very solid swing, enough to break an arm, maybe a rib. With the slower weapon, that's a pretty good score. The bat is being given pretty decent credit here.

Don't forget, too, that a knife is also intimidating. Neither party is likely to be feeling perfectly calm or all that great about what they're doing.

[bottomset]

can the guy with the bat even charge the guy with the knife? seems like a much bigger gamble, and also much tougher to get a monster swing off

seems to me that the guy with the knife can always stay out of range(barring a small area) until he's ready for his charge