How bad did I mess this up? - Page 4

craig1120 · #31 07-09-2007, 07:49 PM

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Betting the turn usually sucks in this spot although it depends

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What exactly does this even mean?

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That betting the turn on this board is usually -ev compared to checking/reevaluating considering position and ranges of typical mid stakes players although of course it depends on reads, image, flow, etc?

Is that good enough or do you need more?

jlocdog · #32 07-09-2007, 08:35 PM

craig,

Please provide a reasonable range where betting this turn is -EV.

If you check, are you 'reevaluating' calling or raising? Please do not say folding.

I guess I need more.....but only after you rethink your speak.

JooWish622 · #33 07-09-2007, 08:41 PM

sir, i call bs. you have no idea what the [censored] you just spewed means.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting the turn usually sucks in this spot although it depends

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly does this even mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
That betting the turn on this board is usually -ev compared to checking/reevaluating considering position and ranges of typical mid stakes players although of course it depends on reads, image, flow, etc?

Is that good enough or do you need more?

[/ QUOTE ]

iSTRONG · #34 07-09-2007, 08:41 PM

LOL at folding preflop. (Aba raises A9o UTG)

Fold river. rest is ok. B/f turn g00t as well.

craig1120 · #35 07-09-2007, 08:52 PM

Damn you're gonna make me give this more effort than I wanted lol.

Ok this isn't going to be that good because I don't know specific players.

Reasons for checking:
Most people call raises in sb w/ ranges weighted toward pocket pairs.
This is a good board to slowplay a set.
Most of the time people are not floating in multi-way pots.

It is very unlikely that both callers have a J correct?
The most likely scenario in which we would want to bet for value would be when 1 player is floating and the other has a weaker top pair correct?
The floater in this hand would be the first caller almost always.
When a player floats the raiser in a multi way pot and the other player in the hand calls the float the floater pretty much never follows through with the float on the next street.
Therefore, if when I check the turn to the possible floater and he bets on that card, then he is almost definitely not floating.
Then I get to see what small blind does. If he continues with the hand, then I can safely fold because it is so unlikely that they have KJ and QJ.
Also, even if the first caller was floating, it's not a guarantee that we get 3 streets of value from sb's QJ.
Therefore, checking the turn with the best hand is not losing too much value becuase we will most likely get value on the river anyways.

Checking the turn allows you to get away cheaply when you are beat (which you usually are in this spot) while still not losing too much value when you are winning.

TheWorstPlayer · #36 07-09-2007, 08:53 PM

i'd usually bet the turn. if i check the turn it's either to c/r or c/f, very rarely to c/c. def fold the river as played.

LiLApprentice · #37 07-09-2007, 08:59 PM

Bet turn, as played I'd raise the the 1/3 pot turn bet that he made.

jlocdog · #38 07-09-2007, 10:24 PM

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Damn you're gonna make me give this more effort than I wanted lol.

Ok this isn't going to be that good because I don't know specific players.

Reasons for checking:
Most people call raises in sb w/ ranges weighted toward pocket pairs.
This is a good board to slowplay a set.
Most of the time people are not floating in multi-way pots.

It is very unlikely that both callers have a J correct?
The most likely scenario in which we would want to bet for value would be when 1 player is floating and the other has a weaker top pair correct?
The floater in this hand would be the first caller almost always.
When a player floats the raiser in a multi way pot and the other player in the hand calls the float the floater pretty much never follows through with the float on the next street.
Therefore, if when I check the turn to the possible floater and he bets on that card, then he is almost definitely not floating.
Then I get to see what small blind does. If he continues with the hand, then I can safely fold because it is so unlikely that they have KJ and QJ.
Also, even if the first caller was floating, it's not a guarantee that we get 3 streets of value from sb's QJ.
Therefore, checking the turn with the best hand is not losing too much value becuase we will most likely get value on the river anyways.

Checking the turn allows you to get away cheaply when you are beat (which you usually are in this spot) while still not losing too much value when you are winning.

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Glad you have it all figured out......

Black winter day · #39 07-09-2007, 10:32 PM

I can't see the hand you beat on the river.
And i am usually good at making up some busted draws that i beat.

craig1120 · #40 07-09-2007, 10:37 PM

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Damn you're gonna make me give this more effort than I wanted lol.

Ok this isn't going to be that good because I don't know specific players.

Reasons for checking:
Most people call raises in sb w/ ranges weighted toward pocket pairs.
This is a good board to slowplay a set.
Most of the time people are not floating in multi-way pots.

It is very unlikely that both callers have a J correct?
The most likely scenario in which we would want to bet for value would be when 1 player is floating and the other has a weaker top pair correct?
The floater in this hand would be the first caller almost always.
When a player floats the raiser in a multi way pot and the other player in the hand calls the float the floater pretty much never follows through with the float on the next street.
Therefore, if when I check the turn to the possible floater and he bets on that card, then he is almost definitely not floating.
Then I get to see what small blind does. If he continues with the hand, then I can safely fold because it is so unlikely that they have KJ and QJ.
Also, even if the first caller was floating, it's not a guarantee that we get 3 streets of value from sb's QJ.
Therefore, checking the turn with the best hand is not losing too much value becuase we will most likely get value on the river anyways.

Checking the turn allows you to get away cheaply when you are beat (which you usually are in this spot) while still not losing too much value when you are winning.

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Glad you have it all figured out......

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Damn you still don't sound convinced. Do I have to show math equations now?

I'm half joking but if you really think about it trying to prove each other wrong is pointless. You're arguing that their ranges are wider than I am and it would be impossible to prove either way w/ what we are given.

I know OP is a good poker player but prob unsure of people's ranges at these stakes. You're saying their range is x and I'm saying it's y. Big deal. Give your opinion and move on. Op can choose to listen to whoever he wants.