PS 5,5 - AQ Resteal with 12 BB

MauMau · #1 07-08-2007, 08:05 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t3545)
UTG (t1695)
MP1 (t1960)
MP2 (t575)
CO (t3960)
Hero (t1275)
SB (t490)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO raises to t300, Hero raises to t1275, SB calls t440 (All-In), 1 fold, CO folds.

Flop: (t2165) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2165) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2165) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2165

To soon (12BB) to resteal against the laggy bigstack?

EscapePlan9 · #2 07-08-2007, 10:57 PM

You're against a big-stack opening from late position, so you're likely ahead of his range: fist-pump and shove. You'll get called by KQ, AJ, AT, pairs, or just crap - and you still have folding equity.

tewall · #3 07-08-2007, 11:47 PM

There's an article about restealing in last month's (I think, if not last month, that's close) 2+2 Internet Magazine you should take a look at.

In order to answer the restealing question, you need to know what hands the raiser would would raise with, and which of those hands he would call with. You say he's laggy, and he has a big stack, so let's say he'll raise with 60% of his hands. Let's say he'll call with the top 20% of hands, which is 1/3 of the hands he would raise with.

Pokerstove tells me that AQo is 58% against this range. Assuming no one calls, we have:

a)Your fold equity is 2/3 of 1275 + 300 + 50 + 100 = 1725, or a little less than 1200.

b)Your showdown equity is 1/3 of 58% of 1275 + 1275 + 50 + 150 = 2750 = something more than 1/3 of 1400.

Adding a) and b) together gives you an absurdly huge gain of equity. The question you are asking isn't even remotely close. You have a HUGE edge here.

Now the actual situation is more complicated, since the SB is short stacked, so is likely to call. If you run down the math, you'll see that it's still going to be largely beneficial to push here.

I'd suggest that you learn how to do these calculations yourself, as it will help develop your intuition as to when you should push.

Regarding your question as to whether this is too soon to think about pushing, then answer is no. You can think about pushing a re-raise with a MUCH larger stack than 12xBB. Here's why.

Consider just a straight push, when you're the first to act. You're probably aware that the rule of thumb is to consider pushing when you have about 10xBB. Why is that? Because a normal raise of 3xBB or so is such a large portion of your stack, you're better off pushing, to gain the fold equity you get by so doing, than to just leave yourself pot committed. The rule of thumb says to push when a normal raise would be about 1/3 of your stack.

Now consider the situation when someone raises. A normal re-raise when someone raises 300 would be around 1000. 1000 is 1/3 of 3000, which is 30 x BB. So following the normal rule of thumb would lead you to push all in, instead of making a re-raise of 1000, when you have less than 30 x BB. Now one could quibble as to where exactly this line should be drawn, but it is clear that it is much higher than 12 x BB.

The real issue, regarding whether to re-raise with 12 x BB, is not simply how large your stack is as how large your edge is. The general strategy in STT's is to not risk a lot of chips early on on a small edge. However, once the blinds get to 50/100, this is no longer early on, and having an AQo in the situation you described is not a small edge. It's a huge edge.

Again, I'd suggest doing some calculations on your own to get an idea as to where to draw the line. If you don't know how, ask for help, and someone should either help or point you to a link which discusses it (or there may be something in the FAQ that's helpful).

Also read the Internet Magazine article by Colin. There's also some discussions about that article on this forum you could find if you search for it.

Lego05 · #4 07-08-2007, 11:49 PM

Looks extremely standard.

AMT · #5 07-09-2007, 12:16 AM

yep, good reshove, nice hand.

flopton · #6 07-09-2007, 12:28 AM

i like this post by tewall because its so throrough, and i agree that the OP definitely has a push in this situation, even with AT. except i have a question about the range of a 'lag bigstack': do they really raise 60% of hands?

if so i definitely understand what you guys say about sng wiz ranges needing to be manually changed because when i put this situation in, it says that very loose players will only raise 45% and call 20% to an all in.

PokerSpiv · #7 07-09-2007, 06:16 AM

In my experience the average donk big stack is calling with any ace, any pair and K9+, JT+ in this situation. So that may help calculations as to what to push with here.

tewall · #8 07-09-2007, 06:38 PM

I took PokerSpiv's range, more or less, as a starting point, and looked at a worse case scenario, which would be the big stack calling with 100% of the hands he raises with, so you wind up with no fold equity.

Assuming the big stack will raise with any Ace, any two broadway, and any pair, and call with all of these hands, you would pretty much break even by pushing the following hands: A8o, A7s, 33, KJs.

This was assuming that the big stack raised 300, and you have 1200 to start with, and the blinds are 50/100, like in the original post. The above made the simplifying assumption that everyone else would fold. So the above hands should be a (too) conservative range of hands that would be +EV to push with, since in reality you should have a fair amount of fold equity.