My main problem in tournaments..The "m"

[miami32]

So each day I try and review my game. As far as I can tell my biggest flaw has to do with the "m." I'm vastly confused, or maybe I'm just results oriented here, but I think for the majority of online tournaments I need to tighten up here. I reread HOH2 the other day and he talks about calling ranges for the players. Those ranges are way to tight considering some of the trash I've been called with. He says something along the lines of the loosest player calling you with AA-99 down to KQoff or something. I dunno iirc. Either way, the majority of players online have ranges when calling a short stack shove I would guess as weak to A2suited, and maybe even j10 suited. Calling with all big two suited combos JT and up. Now I think the obvious would be to tighten up, but tighten up how much? I'm a math idiot, and I'm pretty sure I could just toss this into sng wizard and get some answers, but I don't think that is accurate for MTTS. Can someone please tell me the break line for protiable hands to shove with here? I could be results oriented for like a couple bad calls, but I just want to make sure I'm doing it right and get verification from others.

[4CardStraight]

I agree with you somewhat.

Harringtons calling ranges are *I think* close when you are in a live tournament, closing in on the cash, and your stack is big enough to do serious damage to your opponent.

These conditions are not always true. For instance, if you are down to an M of 3 or 4, and *I* am in the big blind with twice your chips or more, my calling range on your shove will be really wide. I would suspect many players that are in the big blind with double or more the chips of the shover, would call significantly looser than Harringtons loose table. As bad as some of the calls you have listed, I have definitely seen ATC open push. I thought I was making a wide call when I looked a guy up when I had A4, and he had pushed with 53o.

I think online wider calls are made than live, since you dont have to face your opponent, and also since wider pushes are likely being made. I also think over time people are recognizing the historical over-tightness of players calling ranges (especially on bubbles).

Some people open push too wide, some too tight. Some people call too wide, some call too tight. I look at the players at my table, and try to figure out which is which, I will try not to call wide against a player that I know is pushing too tight, and I will push wide against those that I think are calling too tight.

If the *problem* is that you feel you are getting called too wide when you are a shortstack, then ....
- have a bigger stack. Start pushing sooner so that the blinds are a smaller percentage of your stack.
- dont push for fold EV, push for Value. Use a range of hands that by position will be strongest.
- If you are going to push too wide, push hands that provide very strong draws. (like if you were to push all aces, all no gap sc, and all pairs, well thats already 25% of the hands. If you are pushing more than one in four hands, you will get looked up pretty darn wide.) my point is just that one in FOUR hands you get dealt either has an ace, pair, or suited no gap connector. If your going to push too wide, try not to do it with complete and total trash since the extra 2% equity you can get by being suited or well connected will matter in the long run.

thats what i would suggest

[Sherman]

The pushbot charts are your best bet. I have no idea where they are, but someone surely has a link to them. They were designed around online games rather than live, so they might give you a better idea of which hands are profitable to shove.

[golker]

Hom do antes factor into this for example at a 600/1200/200 level pot is 3800 and an m of 10 is 38,000 but you would have 31bb. a pushbot chart says you can push with an m of 10 or less but do you still do that when you have that much room postflop?

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
Hom do antes factor into this for example at a 600/1200/200 level pot is 3800 and an m of 10 is 38,000 but you would have 31bb. a pushbot chart says you can push with an m of 10 or less but do you still do that when you have that much room postflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really know. I don't really follow the pushbot charts myself. It is just a good guide to be familiar with. If you spend any time playing STTs, you'll basically have one memorized. I sorta have my own pushbot chart in my head that considers other factors besides M and how tight calling ranges are. Like stage of the tournament, table dynamics, image, etc.

[supair]

Im finding the same thing miami, although playing micro tourneys peoples ranges are pretty wide as it is. Im not sure many of them have the faculty to think hmm, this guy probably has a good grasp on inflection points, I shall call him with my K10, they just see their A2 suited and genuinely think its a great hand. Which ties in with what 4card mentioned, shoving for value with hands that should be good with your position. If my standard opponent will look me up with any pair, any ace and any combination of broadway cards, then I can shove a LOT of hands that are going to be +EV, for value rather than for FE.

I never really made the adjustment myself, i always applied harringtons m system online, but after recently starting to play on pokerstars rather than the somewhat tighter european sites, I feel I am going to have to adjust quite a lot. I mean, i got berated the other day for shoving 9d7d from the hijack first in, with an M of 4. Whats that about!