What should have happend here.. Your Opinion?

[RBPD5015]

Ok guys here is the deal. I was at the Palm Beach (Florida) Kennel Club, this evening and had a crazy incident a need some thoughts on the whole situation. I was playing NL 1-2, which they only got starting last week, so the dealers are still not the best and the floor is still learning NL.

I am sitting in BB and I have played for over 1 hour so I got a ready on most of the guys. The guy directly to my left who was a very nice guy was from London and had a very strong accent. We will call him London during this. He was stuck over 500 and finally had gotten to around 500 just a few hands before this incident. He had cashed in 500 of five chips into greens (25). He had approximately y 60 left not counting green.
So I was UTG and looking to play some hands. I get delt A8c I raise to 13. London calls me and the BB calls me. So we are three to the Flop.
Flop
KcKh7c
I bet 26 London directly to my left calls 26, BB folds.
Turn
9d
I push all in for approximately 105 or so.
London goes into the tank. He asks the dealer how much, and I believe she said 105. He then pulls both cards up and shows them to the player to his left who is out of the hand and says, how can I fold this while shaking his head and staring at his stack, but never touching or counting his stack. London then says FOLD with a huge dejected look on his face. I then begin to throw my cards on the table face up to show off, but change my mind because it would have been childish so as I am throwing my cards down I turn them face down. They hit the table and visible flip over to the side of the table where seat 7(me) 8,9,10 could see and then land face down. As I am doing this player in seat 6 who obviously saw the cards of London in seat 8 says, “You had to be worried about you kicker”. While he was saying this, London says CALL, CALL, CALL and immediately begins to smile and starts to shove all his chips in the middle. I laugh and say nice try and pull back my raise. The dealer then says to the table “What happened?” I said he said fold, he says no buddy I said call, while laughing. She then asked the table. Seat 9 says Fold seat 8 seat boat, seat 7 (him call) seat 6 me (Fold) Seat 5 (said nothing, but told me later he said fold 100%, but was kinda buddies with him and did’t want to get involved). The who other far end says he said call. She calls the Floor. Floor comes over and we explain what happened. He is lost and want to say, it must have said call holding trip K’s. I laugh and say you can’t make a call like that. He then asked what the dealer heard and she says “I think I heard call” Two people and I say, What you said he didn’t hear what he said. Floor calls the Floor manager. At this point in time I am getting angry, due to the fact that they keep saying they don’t care what the table heard, but he was going to go on what the dealer think she head. I kept saying she didn’t hear anything and that’s why she asked the table. He then tells me that I could keep my stack I pulled back and he would take the pot. I said know what at min I would chop the main pot. I ask one last time, for the floor to look at the video, because the body language was so obvious. I know for a fact he thought I had a K, positive I didn’t bluff much vs him he was a huge stack. He also saw me lay down a huge hand earlier. So finally we all agree to chop the pot and it was settled.

My questions
#1) Who was right and who was wrong (player wise)
#2) Do you think he was shooting an angle. I didn’t realize it to after this hand he constantly said fold and never moved and then mucked only when the dealer asked for the cards.
#3) How did the floor handle and what should happen , to make sure this gets handle right in the future.

Oh and by the way, the Floor demanded that she not show the river.

Matt

[chucky]

he angleshot, if he said fold. Too bad your cards bounced up. How hard do you put them on the table? You were right, but I read so many card problems in brick and mortar, I wonder if everyone needs a lesson in how to muck and reveal cards.
The floor is in an impossible situation here.

[Legislurker]

Only person who matters is the dealer when talking to the floor over this. Obviously, any non invloved player input is meaningless. If the dealer claims to have not heard (1) bitch should be written up or fired (2) the floor would have to go to the video. IF they have a fold line. If. If his cards never touched the muck then youre [censored]. His angle shoot wins. WTF was the dealer doing?

[RBPD5015]

I am not a jerk so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he doesn't even know what shotting an angle is and is just new at B/M due to the new law change? Or maybe he just saw a chance for him to maybe win since the dealer was clueless. I hope he or anyone out there doesn't look to due things like this on a regular basis

The dealer poor girl, very nice but needs to be dealing 1-2 limit, she seemed overwhelmed. He said Fold in a lower voice I feel because he was disappointed he thought he was beat. Normally when someone says call they said it with some authority.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Only person who matters is the dealer when talking to the floor over this. Obviously, any non invloved player input is meaningless. If the dealer claims to have not heard (1) bitch should be written up or fired (2) the floor would have to go to the video.

[/ QUOTE ]

What on earth are you talking about???

Of course the floor should ask the witnesses what happened, if the dealer is unable to state with confidence what might have happened.

And when the players can't agree on what was said, how on earth can you think it's a great idea to discipline the dealer for being unsure what was said???

[ QUOTE ]
WTF was the dealer doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most likely, the dealer was sitting there, watching the two players who were left in the pot telling EACH OTHER things like, "I bet," and "I fold, no wait, I call!"

Since they were seated close together, they felt no need to announce their actions loudly enough for the dealer to hear any of it.

[youtalkfunny]

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what should happen , to make sure this gets handle right in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the future, don't let go of your cards until the pot has been pushed to you. Observe that simple little precaution, and exactly none of this happens.

[TPA_PKR_TOURNEYS]

OK,

Here is my two cents...He is a European player and he took a shot...He did table his hand face up and it DID NOT touch the muck so his hand is live is the verbal was NOT heard by the dealer and the table is split with what they did/not here. Your cards were face down correct? They did not touch the muck; however, correct me if I am wrong but you made a forward motion with your cards. This could be construed as a muck even though you heard FOLD. The floor came over and declared the hand over instead of running out the river. You got lucky with the chop. PLEASE, PLEASE hold your cards between your fingers until the pot is pushed to you in the futute...then release the hand only after the pot is pushed to you. Does WPB have a perimeter line and if so, do they call it a perimeter line or a "betting line?" The dealer is in charge of running his/her game so it is FAIR and Equitable to all players. IT seems the dealer lost control of the action by not repeating what he/she heard. IF she/he wasn't sure of the verbal declaration, he/she should have asked got that hand in the muck and in the muck FAST, or he/she should have asked what the players intention was after the hand was tabled after the turn. I would have grabbed his hand and mucked it so fast it would have made his head spin and that would have taught him a lesson. Then the first rule in poker would have prevailed and that is PROTECT YOUR HAND AT ALL TIMES.....

[RBPD5015]

TPA,

No betting line here first off


Also he did not table his hand, he made a habit him a second player of continually saying "FOLD" while leaving their hands face down or holding them until the dealer asked for them. I never even noticed this till after, because him and the other guy kept doing it and it was a little annoying.

I learned one thing to keep my cards in my hand. It was just I was so nervous, since while he is thinking he shows the guy to his left his cards ( like you show right before you muck) and I saw he had trip 5's so I as soon as he said Fold I got really happy and wasn't thinking.

[Bulldog]

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What should have happened here?

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So I was UTG and looking to play some hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

What?

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I get delt A8c I raise to 13.

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Holy crap that's terrible.

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London calls me and the BB calls me. So we are three to the Flop.
Flop
KcKh7c
I bet 26 London directly to my left calls 26, BB folds.
Turn
9d
I push all in for approximately 105 or so.
London goes into the tank. He asks the dealer how much, and I believe she said 105. He then pulls both cards up and shows them to the player to his left who is out of the hand and says, how can I fold this while shaking his head and staring at his stack, but never touching or counting his stack. London then says FOLD with a huge dejected look on his face. I then begin to throw my cards on the table face up to show off, but change my mind because it would have been childish so as I am throwing my cards down I turn them face down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Do you have the pot? If not, HOLD ON TO YOUR FREAKING HAND. If he wants to fold, he'll muck his hand. KEEP HOLDING ON TO YOUR HAND. When the dealer recognizes the action and starts to push you the pot, now you can give up your cards.

The cards are your tickets to the money.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what should happen , to make sure this gets handle right in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the future, don't let go of your cards until the pot has been pushed to you. Observe that simple little precaution, and exactly none of this happens.

[/ QUOTE ]