Juarez

[Jorge10]

I went to Binions today and played this game. Its basically a modified PLO8. You get 5 cards to start, then the usual betting round takes place. After the betting, two flops are dealt out. You can use either one for your high or low.

Lets say you got A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The first board is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
The second board is K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

You would have nut nut in this betting round. Now both boards get a turn. So now it looks like this.

The first board is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
The second board is K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

As usual we have a betting round after the turn is dealt.

Now a community river is dealt. Now the boards look like this.

The first board is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
The second board is K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

A final betting round takes place as usual. The best low is A2 and the best high is four of a kind 8's followed by 8's full of 6's.

This game might have to replace PLO8. I was at binions and we played PLO8 and it was a nit fest with a bunch of regulars. No one would play hands without an ace, which meant a ton of blind battles. When we played Juarez those same nits became donators who would play crap hands like J955. I think Juarez is PLO8, but better because it protects the bad players more. Long term they will be crushed like in any game, but it lets the keep their money longer and have more fun and play more hands. This should replace PLO8 in my opinion.

A couple of quick Juarez questions.

Warning: I have only played this once, but I think I got the hang of it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Can there be two flushes?

Yes, its possible.

How many low draws are possible?

A ton. Lets say you got 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]XX (With X being any card) and someone else has A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]XX. The boards are:

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Who has the nut low draw here? Both actually. If the top completes the low then 23 has the nut low, but if the top turn is high and the community river is high, while the bottom turn is low, then A2 has the low. In the top A2 is counterfeited, but if that low doesnt get there, then A2 is live at the bottom.

If you ask more questions ill do my best to answer them.

Sorry if there are any spelling errors, but I am away from home so I cant check my spelling and time I spend writing on the forums is limited while in vegas.

[bbartlog]

Seems like if you play this live you'll be playing ten hands an hour (especially if it's pot limit) and constantly have people scratching their heads trying to figure out whether their hands are good. Four cards per hand and one board seems complicated enough.

[prodonkey]

retards can't even read boards or their hands right in omaha for the most part. This would be the slowest game on the planet, especially if it was PL.

On a side note.. since when can you play double flop games in a casino?

[Buzz]

Jorge - Interesting report. Thanks.

One minor discrepancy, leading to some questions: You stated[ QUOTE ]
"You get 5 cards to start."

[/ QUOTE ]But then you showed three example hands, each with four cards:<ul type="square">A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],
2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]XX, and
A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]XX.[/list]
They play five-card Omaha-8 at an Indian casino near Palm Springs (Morango). As I recall (been a couple of years) the game is played eight handed at a nine seat table with the designated dealer sitting out when the table is full, so as to have enough cards for the burns and board.

For the game of Juarez, there aren't quite enough cards in the deck for ten board cards with burns plus individual five-card hands for eight players. Is the game thus played seven handed max? Or do individual players only get four cards to start (as shown in your example hands)?

Buzz

[Jorge10]

That was a mistake on my part, sorry. The sample hands should have 5 cards. You are absolutely right about the amount of cards. Only 7 players can play at once.

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
retards can't even read boards or their hands right in omaha for the most part. This would be the slowest game on the planet, especially if it was PL.

On a side note.. since when can you play double flop games in a casino?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I saw its not any slower than omaha high low.

I dont know about the double flop thing in casinos, but the game works.

[pseudo t-bone]

this sounds like an interesting game and i'll definitely give it a shot when i'm in vegas next week. i have a question for you. you write:

[ QUOTE ]
How many low draws are possible?

A ton. Lets say you got 2 3 XX (With X being any card) and someone else has A 2 XX. The boards are:

A 4 9
3 4 9

Who has the nut low draw here? Both actually. If the top completes the low then 23 has the nut low, but if the top turn is high and the community river is high, while the bottom turn is low, then A2 has the low. In the top A2 is counterfeited, but if that low doesnt get there, then A2 is live at the bottom.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you sure this is right? what if the top board is 34899 and the bottom board is 25799. wouldn't a3 be a better low than a2.

[rando]

Not sure how you get a 25799 board considering his two flops are already A49 and 349. Yes A3 could be better, but not given the flops that are part of his premise.

Juarez sounds very cool, and I really want to use it in my home game. Some of my fellow players would fall right in the traps, so ITA with your assessment.

We have played the crazy pineapple-ish version of PLO8 where you are dealt five and drop one after the flop. Obv that leads to more action and hanging around chasing. Another quality option IMO.

[Truthiness24]

I played that game at Binion's too one night. I may have played against you.

Juarez is a ridiculous game of bingo that masquerades as poker. To win, all you have to do is nut peddle and wait for the new guy to make a mistake. Bluffing is impossible. Strategy is nonexistent.

Here's how it works: The locals (and shills) organize a 1-2PL dealer's choice game. It looks innocuous, and the tourists are invited to call their games first. Then 2 or 3 or 4 of the locals call Juarez, and it is played for about an hour straight (in this game, the dealer's choice stays the choice for one orbit, and then the next player chooses).

In the 2 hours I played it I saw several tourists come in, play for a short period, donk off their stack, and leave. If it wasn't immediately clear what was going on, it became obvious when the locals offered (and accepted) checkdowns from one another. It was clear that they had no interest in playing into one another and every intention of making as much money as possible from the outsiders.

If you believe that the sole purpose of poker is to take money from ignorant fish that don't understand the rules or the strategy, then this game is for you. If you think that card games with wild cards are fun, then this game is for you. But it isn't poker, and as a player I find it unethical.

That game was a scam, and it is exactly this kind of garbage that gave poker a bad name a generation ago. I walked away a winner but was embarrassed to be a part of it.

[pseudo t-bone]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how you get a 25799 board considering his two flops are already A49 and 349. Yes A3 could be better, but not given the flops that are part of his premise.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was actually coming up with two new boards but you're right, i should've continued on his example. so taking:

[ QUOTE ]
How many low draws are possible?

A ton. Lets say you got 2 3 XX (With X being any card) and someone else has A 2 XX. The boards are:

A 4 9
3 4 9

Who has the nut low draw here? Both actually. If the top completes the low then 23 has the nut low, but if the top turn is high and the community river is high, while the bottom turn is low, then A2 has the low. In the top A2 is counterfeited, but if that low doesnt get there, then A2 is live at the bottom.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the top board gets a turn and river of 79 and the bottom board gets a turn and river of 89, then a 23 is a better low than a2, right? even though the a and 2 both play on a board with a low possible.