qq oop preflop (serious question)

[Antinome]

why would you want to?

Deception isn't worth playing one pair OOP in a multiway pot. It really isn't. I would only consider doing it once against sophisticated regulars who would remember it forever and make mistakes in assigning me ranges thereafter because of it. And even then, it is very dubious.

[robinmbuk]

I misread this, I thought you meant with reads.

No, slowplaying QQ pf is awfull. I'd rather randomly shove here than check, and I'd never randomly shove here.

[Gelford]

Grunch

No.

[MusashiStyle]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

ty, gelford, i'll try to make my next theoretical post better.

[SirFelixCat]

Basically, you are asking whether or not you should give inferior hands a free chance to catch up to you and play a big pot OOP with them?

When put this way, the answer becomes fairly apparent, no?

[Gelford]

Nah, the thing is that QQ has a huge pf edge over villians ranges.


Now if you do not bet, you fail to do two things.

1. Protect your equity

and

2. Extract value


It is very hard to stack someone in a limped pot ... and so checking here is just meh. This train of thought is very common, originates from the WPT I guess, but in reality you should do it the other way around.


Not mask you good hands like QQ or whatever by checking them pf, but mask them by raising wide. If you have showed down 54s once, then the next time you raise, people are more likely to go ZOMG he's raising soooted trash again.


Start betting light ... that is the key (and also the reason you 3bet light and fire 2nd barrels, to protect your good hands)

[MusashiStyle]

[ QUOTE ]
Nah, the thing is that QQ has a huge pf edge over villians ranges.


Now if you do not bet, you fail to do two things.

1. Protect your equity

and

2. Extract value


It is very hard to stack someone in a limped pot ... and so checking here is just meh. This train of thought is very common, originates from the WPT I guess, but in reality you should do it the other way around.


Not mask you good hands like QQ or whatever by checking them pf, but mask them by raising wide. If you have showed down 54s once, then the next time you raise, people are more likely to go ZOMG he's raising soooted trash again.


Start betting light ... that is the key (and also the reason you 3bet light and fire 2nd barrels, to protect your good hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree 100 % of course. but there are a couple wierd subtleties in this spot.

1. raise pot preflop as u said everytime

2. once in blue moon, if u feel like playing a small pot and don't feel like protecting ur hand (obv incorrectly so)
, or are trying to get top set with qq and feel like
limpers might be holding medium pairs for lesser sets (the point being that in a set overset hand, it won't matter that the pot is small becuz stacks are going in no matter what anyway

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]

i agree 100 % of course. but there are a couple wierd subtleties in this spot.

1. raise pot preflop as u said everytime

2. once in blue moon, if u feel like playing a small pot and don't feel like protecting ur hand (obv incorrectly so)
,

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel like playing a small pot ??? That is just spewing, this game is all about value. You might if you want to get tricky in an aggro game limp QQ+ in ep with the intention of checkraising, but holla !

[ QUOTE ]

or are trying to get top set with qq and feel like
limpers might be holding medium pairs for lesser sets

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not idea what the odds of both you and the limpers to ..

1. both hold pocket pairs

and then

2. both hit a set.



We are talking online poker here right, 100bb stacks ... so even if this happens, you are at most getting 100bb as a payoff ... nah .... maybe in a deep stacked live game you might have a point, but not online.


and actually if you like stuff like this, you should be playing full ring.

The shorter the game becomes, implied odds decrease, so all that setmining and such becomes less and less valuable. (You sound like you been reading too much NLTAP ... Sklansky really got a lot of things backwards in that book, tho the lovers defend it by claiming it was written for deep live games)

[jessyj07]

Also if somebody holds a smaller pp they aren't folding preflop anyways. I'm also Gel just forgot to point it out.

[RickA]

You have the best hand = bet, especially oop.