KK big pot

[Little_blue]

In HFAP there is a part where they state, that rasied AA on the button in a 6 way pot, if it is K to you on a low card flop you should K as you can not protect the hand, HOpe some one bets into you on the turn and you can then protect it,

at 24 sb it a little more of a problem,

[James.]

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1) If we do hold the best hand on the flop, it is very likely that our equity advantage is miniscule (like something around 25%). That equity is likely to either skyrocket or plummet after the turn card is revealed.
2) Because our equity is likely to be much higher after a safe turn card, we will earn a significantly larger amount from every bet that goes in on the turn vs. the flop. Both because of our higher pot equity and because the bet sizes double.
3) Based on the information we have from preflop, the reads, and the board in front of us, it is very likely that a blank turn card will be bet if the flop checks through.
4) Being able to get in a raise on the turn, or even a 3bet as Hero did here, gives us the added benefit of being able to deny odds to at least some hands with outs to beat us (ace high hands, particularly).
5) If the turn is not a blank but rather a diamond, another straight card, or an ace, then we can escape the hand more cheaply when the action dictates.

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nice post Harvester Dave.

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Really, the only time the flop check hurts us is when Button bets behind us and everyone calls.

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yeah, but at least we can then checkraise, bloat it even bigger since we can't help it now, and hope our pair holds up. or we can call and donk the turn hoping button would raise, but that would be less likely unless smoked by a set or an overplayed toppair.

[HoneyBadger]

I do agree that maybe there is more to be said for checking the flop, altough I still don't like it much.

For the random-Sklansky-quoters-of-ultimate-truth I want to add a few, just to confuse them:

"With aces, it is not worth the gamble; take the immediate payoff and reraise on the flop."

"You have 4 remaining opponents. No matter what you do, you probably cannot induce any of your opponents to fold; having already put money in on the flop, they will almost always call any future bets to see the turn card. If you just call, the likely turn bettor is on your left, so you will not be able to raise to face your opponents with calling 2 cold on fourth street. There is no good way to protect your hand.

Since you cannot protect your hand, you should push your edge with a value raise."

The question really is how big your edge is on the flop, and how big it is going to be on the turn. And with edge I mean the overhead of (100 - win% * nrplayers)

And I agree big time thaf if you had jacks you should wait for the turn.

[Niediam]

I'm not sure what the point is of quoating passages from SSH which are not discussing this type of situation at all...

Actually I'd rather bet the flop if I had JJ because a lot of villians arn't going to call with K-Q/small for one bet even in a huge pot.

[HoneyBadger]

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I'm not sure what the point is of quoating passages from SSH which are not discussing this type of situation at all...

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Excuse me? That's both from the "two-overpair hands" section, which is THE section of SSHE describing this situation.

[Harv72b]

I think what he meant was that the first quote mentions reraising on the flop, when in this hand there was no bet on the flop, and the second passage relates to a pot where you have 3 remaining opponents (vs. the 5 in this hand). [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

That's what I meant above when I kept stressing that I believe the check is correct in this specific example. Fewer opponents, smaller pot, or someone betting into us and I like betting/raising immediately.