Theory: An ICM Tutorial Chat. (Long)

TheFishhh · #1 07-04-2007, 01:36 AM

Homework #1: 22s vs. 22s, 33s vs. 33s, etc. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I will play around with actual hands later.

Homework #2: EV (Fold): .302. EV (Push & win): .364. EV (Push & lose): .243; thus EV (Push): .3035, because .5 * .364 + .5 * .243 = .3035. Resulting in a difference of .0015. & since we're living in a hypothetical world, it's +EV, & therefore we're pushing.

I hope I passed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BradleyT · #2 07-04-2007, 09:57 AM

In the scenario given (3000,1000,1000,5000 and we're pushing into a 1000) IMO anything 0 or above is a no-brain push. You can't go bust, when you lose there's still another stack half the size of yours and one equal to yours, and winning gets you ITM with 20BB vs chipleaders 25BB. And if big stack has been stealing my blinds because of the bubble it makes a +0 decision that much easier.

mildeng · #3 07-04-2007, 10:56 PM

I'm still learning this too, in the beginning of the tourney, everyone's equity = .1. When Player 10 lost to player one, how does the math go for the new ICM numbers?

Insty · #4 07-05-2007, 05:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still learning this too, in the beginning of the tourney, everyone's equity = .1. When Player 10 lost to player one, how does the math go for the new ICM numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Try typing the numbers into the ICM calculator that is linked and having a look.

Hint: They will always add up to 1. (100%)

If you want to know how to actually do the ICM calculations, come to IRC and ask so I can get another chat to post [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

holy32 · #5 07-05-2007, 06:42 AM

very nice post.

Maybe add this to the FAQ as the quick ICM intro ?

montagu · #6 07-05-2007, 07:57 AM

Insty, would you be so kind as to also post the lesson on ranges, once you have done that one. I have found this post massively informative, thanks alot.

techrush · #7 07-07-2007, 03:35 PM

bump because this information is invaluable.

RexWoo · #8 07-05-2007, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
very nice post.

Surely add this to the FAQ as the quick ICM intro ?

[/ QUOTE ]

TheFishhh · #9 07-05-2007, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still learning this too, in the beginning of the tourney, everyone's equity = .1. When Player 10 lost to player one, how does the math go for the new ICM numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone's equity, excluding P#1, increased by 0.002. P#1's equity, doubling up through P#10, is increased by 0.084. I believe the significance of this comes in when you estimate the equity behind doubling up 6-10 handed, as opposed to 2-5 handed. For example, say on the bubble (4-handed, obv.), everyone miraculously had 3,750. Now, everyone's equity as it stands is .250, or $25. Now, if P#2 were to push all-in (as the SB) against P#1 (the BB) & get called, depending on the situation (yada, yada, yada), if P#2 were to win, his equity of the pot will have almost doubled & he'd be sittin' pretty after the bubble (with an equity of .348, or $34.80c). Now, compare P#2's increase in equity (on the bubble) to P#1's increase in equity (still 10-handed) & you get a feel for why doubling up on the bubble is of more significance in the opening orbits.

I think..

simonpoker · #10 07-05-2007, 08:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm still learning this too, in the beginning of the tourney, everyone's equity = .1. When Player 10 lost to player one, how does the math go for the new ICM numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

By doubling up early on your equity almost doubles(Increases more than 80%) but while you double up on bubble it increases by ~55%.The reasons why you shouldn't take risks early on are others not that doubeling up isn't worth any.

Everyone's equity, excluding P#1, increased by 0.002. P#1's equity, doubling up through P#10, is increased by 0.084. I believe the significance of this comes in when you estimate the equity behind doubling up 6-10 handed, as opposed to 2-5 handed. For example, say on the bubble (4-handed, obv.), everyone miraculously had 3,750. Now, everyone's equity as it stands is .250, or $25. Now, if P#2 were to push all-in (as the SB) against P#1 (the BB) & get called, depending on the situation (yada, yada, yada), if P#2 were to win, his equity of the pot will have almost doubled & he'd be sittin' pretty after the bubble (with an equity of .348, or $34.80c). Now, compare P#2's increase in equity (on the bubble) to P#1's increase in equity (still 10-handed) & you get a feel for why doubling up on the bubble is of more significance in the opening orbits.

I think..

[/ QUOTE ]

By doubling up early on your equity almost doubles(Increases more than 80%) but while you double up on bubble it increases by ~55%.The reasons why you shouldn't take risks early on are others not that doubeling up isn't worth any.