need help to beat my home game

[awakuni]

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And OP, it sounds like you guys play a relatively short stack game if most of the money is in play by the time the flop is dealt. In short games the value of big pair hands go up and the value of small pairs/drawing hands go down so you should adjust accordingly. Play the hands that make TPTK/overpairs and then play the flop fast. It sounds like you shouldn't have to worry too much about reverse implied odds until you and another opponent start to get deep stacks.

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everybody buys in for the same amount, $20, and then can rebuy if they get below $5. it's also a capped buy-in at $40. stack sizes vary from player to player so it's not a constant all-in fest. if stack sizes do get deep should reverse implied odds come more into play? and this is the big question for me: how do i know when to switch up between lag and tag during the course of a session?

[Astyanax]

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One last thing. Do not slow play AA KK. I have a proud record that for as long as I can remember in live play I have never lost money with aa when I am behind. I get it all in by raising huge and reraising if applicable and if they fold am happy to scoop the blinds.

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Unless I'm misunderstanding you this seems like sketchy advice. Do you raise huge with AK/AQ/JJ? If you've never lost money with AA when your opponent has outflopped you then you have probably folded it way too many times when you were ahead. Not slowplaying is fine but it's absolutely insane if you play those two hands in a way that makes it super easy for your opponents to fold. Gee whiz, you should never be 'happy' to just win the blinds with AA/KK and it sounds like you are going out of your way to accomplish this so you won't have to worry about playing post-flop.

Don't mean to be mean but it's important that a relative beginner not fall into oft quoted by Mike Sexton mindset that "It's better to win a small pot than to lose a big one."


And OP, it sounds like you guys play a relatively short stack game if most of the money is in play by the time the flop is dealt. In short games the value of big pair hands go up and the value of small pairs/drawing hands go down so you should adjust accordingly. Play the hands that make TPTK/overpairs and then play the flop fast. It sounds like you shouldn't have to worry too much about reverse implied odds until you and another opponent start to get deep stacks.

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What I meant was that when infomation is not at a premium it is best to seek to get it all in with hands such as AA and KK. When the stakes increase then differing plays are mandatory but in these games trying to get it all in preflop with AA/KK is quite a good play. I like to raise/reraise an amount that commits a player with a hand like jj/1010/ak/aq. If you let these players see a flop sometimes they can make laydown because of scare cards. If that means I don't get any action with the wo best hands then so be it. As I said, I make up for that with thin value bets coupled with overbets with the nuts...

I'm just giving my opinion on how to beat a home game where you think you are the best player...Obviously play should be varied but in this scenario I feel I am correct.

[Ricky_Bobby]

Ok, stack sizes are very important in this discussion so thanks for the info. Your game is played, at least at the start of the night, with 40 big blind stacks. This is pretty short which explains the relative looseness and lack of post-flop play. In fact, it would take more than a double up just to get to the standard 100bb stacks of a typical .25/50 capped buy in game. The truth is, with stacks this short playing LAG will only cost you money. In this setup, hands are generally going to showdown, so you need to be able to show down a winner when you get involved in a pot. So even though it's not much fun, if you want to beat this game you've gotta play really tight and value-bet the heck out of your hand when you flop good, and don’t bother bluffing unless you’re up against one of your more timid opponents. It doesn’t sound like you’ll have much luck getting people to fold the winning hand, so focus on getting them to call with a losing hand.

As for playing LAG or TAG you really shouldn’t focus on when to switch it up as much as whom to switch it up against. You can easily punish the loose passives by simply playing better hands than they play and letting them call you down with losers. Just don’t bluff them.

Against the LAGs you might find that the best way to play them is to let them bluff you. Many people make the mistake of routinely folding to pressure from LAGs with anything less than TPTK/TPGK, but when they make a good hand they start fighting back aggressively. This makes it pretty easy for LAGs to play, as they can constantly get people to fold winners, yet can easily get away from losers. Unless you are deep vs one of the LAGs, you should try just calling them down with most of your probable winners. LAGs seem to think it is their duty to punish people who play passively and will bluff their whole stack off. Let them.

Don’t worry too much about the TAGs. They’re probably among the better players in your game and will be harder to win money from. Focus on exploiting their individual weaknesses but avoid them for the most part. Most of your winnings come from the loose passives and loose aggressives. However, just because someone is a TAG does not make him good, and you can frequently stack these types with hands that have high implied odds. Making sets with small pairs, well disguised hands with SC’s, etc. But keep in mind, these hands don’t flop good enough to justify playing them for a raise when the stacks are short.

This brings us to implied/reverse implied odds. The key to winning big is building a deep stack and then stacking someone else with a deep stack. The flipside to this is to avoid getting stacked yourself. Now is the time to be wary of one pair type hands and focus on manipulating your deep stacked opponents into making major errors. You want to start getting involved with the deep stacks as long as you are the better player. Now instead of limping small pairs and folding suited one-gappers, you can start raising them to build pots. Once you start mixing it up you will get action and be harder to read, and if you’re lucky you’ll hit a flop hard when one of your unskilled opponents has an overpair/TPTK and hasn’t adjusted to the dynamics of the game. So many players who are used to playing tournies or short stack cash games have no idea how to adjust to stack sizes. They are like lambs to the slaughter.

Now, maybe stacks never get very deep in your game. After all, having $50 in front of you would only be 100bb’s deep. If this is the case, focus on playing the style that wins against short stacks. But even if only one other player is deep, you have to make it your goal to stack that guy. Stacking one guy with $60-$80 in front of him will give you a good win even if you only break even against everyone else (of course you would have to be up some to have the chance to stack him because of the cap). So in essence, play LAGier against inferior deep-stacked opponents, play TAG against the loose-passives, and although it can be unsettling, be willing to play more passively against the LAG’s

Important disclaimer: I’m not advocating calling all the way down against a LAG when you’re deep, as they are generally more likely to actually have a good hand in that situation. That’s why it is important that you understand that hands like AJo go down in value against even maniacs when stacks are deep. Avoid high reverse implied odds situations and exploit high implied odds situations.

Finally, you should be buying in for $40 if you can’t reload until you get down to $5. That way when someone else with $20 doubles up, you instantly have a shot at it. And furthermore, have you ever proposed lowering the blinds to $.10/.25? With that structure you start out with 80bb’s and can take much greater advantage of your opponents’ weaknesses. There would be much more post-flop play which is presumably to your advantage. Remember, short stacks reduce a good player’s edge. You could probably crush this game if you convinced them to lower the blinds. (I’m assuming that you play online and understand deep-stack play and have decent understanding of implied odds)

Now, I might just be repeating things you already know, since you have been playing for a few years. If this doesn't help then my advice is to start running hotter.

[Rottersod]

This is very good advice Ricky Bobby. I'd recommend that the people who read Home Poker copy this post, analyze it and try to put these concepts into play at your games. The part about adjusting your play as your stack gets deeper is spot on and will probably make you more money than almost anything else at a home game, as you can not only stack the LAG's but also the TAG's who haven't been able to adjust.

I have found this to be true over my years of playing: You will make a lot more money, and you will make it faster off of the LAG's than you will from any other player. As RB wrote: Concentrate on them until you build up your stack enough and then go for the kill against the TAG's who because they are better players should have spotted your tendencies to play the good hands and may not be able to adjust quickly enough to realize that you are now seeing flops in order to stack them.

[awakuni]

thanks for the awesome feedback. ricky made me realize that i do play in a short-stack game and i just never realized it before.

your post also made me think of a follow-up question: you advocate actually trying to stack the other big stack at the table, while avoiding getting stacked and the method that you propose is to mix-up my game but is there is a point in which you are just giving money back by raising with marginal hands that may not hit. if you take three or four shots and they all miss (which can happen easily) then you really aren't protecting your stack. i think in theory it sounds like a good idea but in practice it might be harder to do.

i mean if the guy has an overpair, or tptk and you flop two pair or a set then great but aren't you losing a lot of pre-flop equity when making or calling raises with these hands when they don't hit?

i'm just asking because i don't know. i'm having a hard time finding my game again and these are the types of questions that i've been chewing over.

[Rottersod]

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thanks for the awesome feedback. ricky made me realize that i do play in a short-stack game and i just never realized it before.

your post also made me think of a follow-up question: you advocate actually trying to stack the other big stack at the table, while avoiding getting stacked and the method that you propose is to mix-up my game but is there is a point in which you are just giving money back by raising with marginal hands that may not hit. if you take three or four shots and they all miss (which can happen easily) then you really aren't protecting your stack. i think in theory it sounds like a good idea but in practice it might be harder to do.

i mean if the guy has an overpair, or tptk and you flop two pair or a set then great but aren't you losing a lot of pre-flop equity when making or calling raises with these hands when they don't hit?

i'm just asking because i don't know. i'm having a hard time finding my game again and these are the types of questions that i've been chewing over.

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Re-read his first paragraph.

[Ricky_Bobby]

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i mean if the guy has an overpair, or tptk and you flop two pair or a set then great but aren't you losing a lot of pre-flop equity when making or calling raises with these hands when they don't hit?

i'm just asking because i don't know. i'm having a hard time finding my game again and these are the types of questions that i've been chewing over.

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There's no simple answer to this question. My first advice when be to maintain tight hand requirements if you are out of position against the other deep stack/s, but open up if you have position on them. You shouldn't be losing every time your hand misses, as you can still bluff when you have a good opportunity. It's easier to bluff in position, and easier to extract value with drawing hands and sets/2 pair. Small pairs you can still raise because sets are pretty easy to play even OOP.

Try just calling in position post-flop more often. This can make you harder to play against and get you more action, especially if you show a float once or twice. Straight forward TAGs and LAGs tend to make assumptions when people only call them in position. They might assume you have a weak pair, or a draw(or not a draw if you always raise draws), or are slowplaying a monster. When you smooth call with air, bluff the turn and show down your float, you'll become very hard to read. Now you can call with draws and still get action when you hit, or you can trick people into bluffing you when you have TPTK/2pair/set. Furthermore, you can raise more often once people see that a raise on the flop could mean many things, just like a smooth call. When you mix up your game you can afford to play looser pre-flop and still more or less breakeven on your sub-par hands, but you'll get more action on your big hands, which is ultimate goal. You want to appear that you are playing very loose without being all that loose. You only have to show down 89s once after you raised preflop to alter your opponents' perception of your hand range. You can play nothing but top-tier hands for the next hour and people will still be skeptical of your aggressive play. The whole idea is that when a pot gets big, you want to have the nuts or something close to it. People with deep stacks will start assuming that you don't have anything but when a big pot is played, you'll have them drawing dead and they'll never know what hit them.

But remember not to get too fancy. Your opponents aren't brilliant and may not even grasp the subtleties of your play. Don't play super LAG just because you're deep with another player. Just play laggier than you would against a short stack. And remember that position is absolutely essential in deep stack play.

You said that everyone drinks, which is a good thing. Almost everyone tends to play more loose and aggressive with alcohol. When people start getting really sloshed you want to tighten your pre flop range again. People are more likely to follow through on bluffs so you can't really float now. On the other hand, they are more likely to over value their own hand (especially against you if they've seen you play loose earlier in the evening) and be willing to put in more money than they should against you. They are less likely to believe you when you bet, so you can get big value out of your hands. Now would be the time to go back to TAG play. You've convinced them that you are a LAG just like them, when in reality you are playing TAG. That little bit of splashing around can really alter how people perceive you. Now you should be able to get undue action from your good hands, without having risked that much.

[Rottersod]

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But remember not to get too fancy. Your opponents aren't brilliant and may not even grasp the subtleties of your play.

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This can't be said enough in a .25/.50 home game.