Marginal Folds - Are They +ev or -ev??

Poker Jon · #1 07-02-2007, 07:26 PM

Hi All,

Just wanted to get some feedback on these folds. These are spots where I am trying to get better at. The situations I am talking about are when u sort of know what your opponent has, and it beats you, but you still ned up calling just to check (cos u have pot odds etc?).

PLease give me honest feedback on the hands, and how you think I played them, if relevent.

Hand 1: NOt much info on villain here, but just felt I was beat even though - felt like AJ or flopped set maybe (esp as seemed quite tight)? 12/3.5/0.89

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($50.60)
CO ($46.95)
Button ($35.35)
SB ($30.25)
BB ($50)
UTG ($74.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button raises to $6, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($16.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($16.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises to $27.35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $54.10

Results in white below: 
Button doesn't show.
Outcome: Button wins $54.10. 

Hand 2 - Villain is a v tricky opponent who can raise and call raises with anything - but have not seen him raise a river yet!! 35/20/1.14

(is this a certain Ten? or am I missing a trick with AJ, A9 etc)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($17.25)
Hero ($82.85)
BB ($12.20)
UTG ($145.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($12.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($12.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG calls $8.

River: ($28.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $16.5, UTG raises to $40, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $85

Results in white below: 
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins $85. 

Hand 3 - Villain is 28/11/0.97 only over 100 hands or so - havent seen him be too out of line here

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($48)
CO ($14.25)
Hero ($53.05)
SB ($8.80)
BB ($22)
UTG ($173.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $2, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $2.5, Hero calls $2.50.

Turn: ($9.75) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $5, Hero raises to $13.5, MP raises to $43.5, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $66.75

Results in white below: 
No showdown. MP wins $66.75. 

Cheers for your thoughts,

Jon

jessyj07 · #2 07-02-2007, 07:30 PM

I think they're all good folds. I'd be tempted to call hand 3 but since you have the Ace of spades he likely has the same hand or has you crushed.

Manchild84 · #3 07-02-2007, 07:43 PM

Not what you were asking, but:
Hand 1: 3B flop and fold to push
Hand 2: C-Bet flop, since the PF 3B is usually assumed to be JJ+/AK
Hand 3: I think I raise flop and fold to 3b.. the 1/2 pot C-bet by villain is pretty weak.

I guess I'm saying that you can avoid these marginal river situations by defining where you stand earlier in the hand.

whizzle · #4 07-02-2007, 07:43 PM

In hand 1 i'm betting the turn for value from Ax and shutting down to further action. Furthermore as played all hands are fine in my opinion

C4LL4W4Y · #5 07-02-2007, 07:54 PM

In hand 2, I'd c/c river. This is kind of a marginal spot without position, but an aggro player bets that river with a wide range.

Vyse · #6 07-02-2007, 08:05 PM

cbet flop on hand 2 all day

pmw · #7 07-02-2007, 08:30 PM

i hate it, i was close too 25 nl and than this and 2 other beats happen and i am back at 427. I grinded so hard to day and now i am down 2bi
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($13.10)
Button ($2.90)
SB ($9.80)
BB ($23)
UTG ($12.80)
MP ($17.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.4, 1 fold, SB calls $1.35, 1 fold, MP raises to $7, Hero raises to $13.1, SB calls $8.40 (All-In), MP calls $6.10.

Flop: ($36.10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($36.10) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($36.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $36.10

Results in white below: 
SB has 3c 4c (one pair, fours).
MP has Qs Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Hero has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP wins $36.10.

jessyj07 · #8 07-02-2007, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i hate it, i was close too 25 nl and than this and 2 other beats happen and i am back at 427. I grinded so hard to day and now i am down 2bi
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($13.10)
Button ($2.90)
SB ($9.80)
BB ($23)
UTG ($12.80)
MP ($17.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.4, 1 fold, SB calls $1.35, 1 fold, MP raises to $7, Hero raises to $13.1, SB calls $8.40 (All-In), MP calls $6.10.

Flop: ($36.10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($36.10) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($36.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $36.10

Results in white below: 
SB has 3c 4c (one pair, fours).
MP has Qs Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Hero has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP wins $36.10. 

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHAhaahahahahaha

Vyse · #9 07-02-2007, 09:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i hate it, i was close too 25 nl and than this and 2 other beats happen and i am back at 427. I grinded so hard to day and now i am down 2bi
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($13.10)
Button ($2.90)
SB ($9.80)
BB ($23)
UTG ($12.80)
MP ($17.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.4, 1 fold, SB calls $1.35, 1 fold, MP raises to $7, Hero raises to $13.1, SB calls $8.40 (All-In), MP calls $6.10.

Flop: ($36.10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($36.10) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($36.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $36.10

Results in white below: 
SB has 3c 4c (one pair, fours).
MP has Qs Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Hero has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP wins $36.10. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you spamming up his thread?