Post "non standard" SSNLT play and how to fend against it

[BarryLyndon]

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Sometimes i play the 180man 10$ to get more tables running to prevent me doing stupid stuff in the hundos

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I like you, you're alright.

[kurtkatt]

omg my english sucks...

[BarryLyndon]

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omg my english sucks...

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That was English?

[kurtkatt]

fkk u guys, im going home

[blockafor]

A lot of the play you describe is stuff I love to see at a table.

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1. The habitual miniraiser.
2. The "I bet 1/10th of the pot on every street" player (also, "I'm bringing limit back to no-limit" style players).

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In both of these cases, don't let them dictate how the game should be played. Treat these small bets almost like a check. You're allowed to call more often because you're getting great odds to draw to improve. And if you want them to pay to outdraw you, come over the top big. Don't play back with their small bet game. The one exception is that it is more acceptable to make a small bluff raise or 3-bet since these players that do that see this as a normal raise that represents a lot of strength and will lay down at a low price for you. It is important here to find out how they react to a re-raise. Some will be stations and some will be very exploitable by folding too often.

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3. The two limps before every hand preflop, with loose passives behind you.


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That's great. You get to see more flops cheaply or raise good hands for value.

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4. The player who after three limps will raise 2 or 3XBB.


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These players will build large pots preflop. Playing any pocket pair becomes more valuable for set value. Be careful with marginal hands where you can get a lot of good but not great flops but feel priced in for too much of your stack with these good but not great hands post flop.

Also, a lot of times the 3x raiser here has a decent starting hand, but not a monster. Do not see monsters under the bed and do not hesitate to re-raise with premiums.

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5. Tables where in early rounds see, once in about 1.5 to 2 orbits, 4 or 5 players to each flop (with / without a raise).

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I think it's great if you can get in these hands with suited connectors, suited one-gappers, pocket pairs, and wait to flop big. Try to avoid making moves post flop without a hand.

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Blinds 50/100, hero (1800). Average stack = 4000

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, folds to MP1 limps, MP2 limps, folds to CO who raises to 300, SB calls, hero with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 :spades: ?

I know everyone is coming for the ride, so I'm getting 9:1 + I need to chip up as the average is now at around 4,000. But this is still a fold, right?

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Absolutely this is a fold. In these situations wait for a good hand and shove to pick up the relatively large pot or get called as a big favorite.

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Example2:

$10/45 man tournament: Blinds 30/60

Hero (1920), Average = 2200. Table is loose-passive, many pots are multiway irregardless of the raise size. Average flop is 3 players, there have been 5 on average of once every 1.5 orbits:

Folds to MP3 who limps, Hero in CO-1 has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls, CO raises to 120, button folds, SB calls, BB calls, MP3 calls, Hero (?).

Assume Hero calls:

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

It's checked to hero who?

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Make a normal sized bet (about 2/3 pot) and win the pot. Slow down if called.

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3. Example three:

Blinds 20/40, Hero (1500), average: 1600

Hero in MP3 with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] raises to 120, CO calls, BB calls:

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
(pot: 36)

BB bets 40, Hero?

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Treat this like a check. Would you normally check behind (in this case call)? Or would you normally bet (in this case raise)? I would raise to like 3-400.

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Isolating players, making cont. bets, getting value off top hands through creative play, all goes out the window because either there are too many players to the flop or two limps are blocking my ability to make a PF raise with marginal hands for pot control/position or a PF raise that doesn't give away I have a big hand. Anyway...some discussion would be appreciated.

Barry

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The more people that enter the hand, the less creative my post flop play would be.

[seke2]

One general question to those who say to treat someone who habitually minbets every street as a check.

What happens when they DO check? Do you think they are up to something? Because while you might want to treat their minbet as a check, they might have reasons (albeit however dumb) for why they opt to minbet vs. check.

[hamnegger]

hand 1 is a fold or you can make a case for a big reraise to 1500-1700.i actually think this is a case where being suited multiway changes this to a call. the problem with a reraise is the donk will still call w kjsuited. so id play the more conservative route. remember if you are better than them play small pots pre unless you have the goods. too many "internet studs" try to run weak players over by making "moves". i clearly remember brunson's advice for cash games that still applies here. an average player you play straight foward poker show him a hand.

hand 2 : check behind don't get trapped . you may bet turn if checked to or you can semi bluff raise the turn. a probe bet of 1/3 pot may be ok to see who is interested in sticking around. here you really have a variety of ways to play the hand.

hand 3: i raise to 160 he has a gut shot or some other crappy king but you are almost always ahead here.


my general advise though goes back to hand one. play small pots in a dbl stack tourney bc if you hit just one of these flops you will get paid. in a 1500 tourn id only take a few small shots then tighten up and play the top hands and try to win a big pot that way. value bet don't check good hands on the flop and turn. in the full tilt 500,000 g yesterday i qualified bc my bankroll is too small right now to play it regularly i couldn't believe how people just handed chips to me (they were mostly 10-50 buy in guys who qualified) just the guys you are talking about. just accept the bad beats that will come

[Sherman]

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One general question to those who say to treat someone who habitually minbets every street as a check.

What happens when they DO check? Do you think they are up to something? Because while you might want to treat their minbet as a check, they might have reasons (albeit however dumb) for why they opt to minbet vs. check.

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Dan,
I'm not sure if you are referring to anything I have said or not, but I'll respond.

I treat habitual min-raisers PF as a limp.

I treat min-bets on flops as blocking bets for drawing hands. When the person checks, I assume they do not have a drawing hand.

Sherman

[blockafor]

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One general question to those who say to treat someone who habitually minbets every street as a check.

What happens when they DO check? Do you think they are up to something? Because while you might want to treat their minbet as a check, they might have reasons (albeit however dumb) for why they opt to minbet vs. check.

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I treat a check as weaker "check" than a min-bet. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Although I realize that these players are capable of slow-playing with both min-bets and checks.

Edit: Another difference is that I'll never fold to a real check, but I will fold to a min-bet if I hate the hand and don't think it's a good spot to float or re-raise lightly.

[plzleenowhammy]

I don't remember the hand exactly but it went something like..

villain limps pf i raise with 8d8h he calls

a73ddd flop.. he min leads i raise he cals

6 turn.. he min leads i shove he calls

he has a4 with the 4d

I had no clue what to do in this hand.. I had a psb left after my flop raise and sticking it in on the turn seemed like the best thing to do but I got looked up so light that I think my play sucked... any thoughts?