NBA draft discussion thread

[NicksDad1970]

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NicksDad, this is based on one year only and not for the future.

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Gotcha, Then I guess it would go based on need. If Ray Allen can play and take over for Ainge I say it's a great deal.

Seriously thought is that going to put Boston in contention in the east? I see so many people make comments about how things like this will get a team into the playoffs. But will it get them deep into them or first round and out?

Being a Memphis fan I just want a win in the postseason.

[teamdonkey]

as much as love argueing with idiots, i can't help myself here...

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I'm actually waiting for anybody in the world to come in and evaluate players however they evaluate them. There's no valid evaluation tool in the world that can disprove Allen not being a top 20 player. Where is it? By PER? No. The nine consecutive 20+ ppg seasons? Outside of Dirk, there are a paucity of elite, high volume scorers that approach Ray Allen in regards to FG%, 3PT% and FT%, and he does this while maintaining a solid turnover rate on porous teams.

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how about the one you keep mentioning, PER? He was not top 20 PER in any of the last 3 seasons. Man was that tough.

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You can't knock Kidd's defense when you're talking about Allen who is also a terrible defender.

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Except he isn't. I already went through this with another thread. He's slightly below average and has had a couple of great defensive seasons as well, and this is without anyone in the world helping him and in a loaded conference.

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So Kidd, a 9 time All-NBA defensive teamer (including this year), is "quite bad defensively", and Ray Allen, who has made zero All-NBA defensive teams and is widely regarded as a sub par defender, is only "slightly below average" and has had some "great defensive seasons"? Interesting.

[magister ludi]

wow, owned.

[kidcolin]

If you want to bust out Roland Rating (I like 82games, but it's not a proven stat as of yet), we might as well take a look at Dave Berri's Wins Produced (highly debated, I know), where Kidd consistently ranks near the top (I can't find numbers on this season, though halfway through he was on pace for the top spot, he was tops two years ago, second last year), while Allen isn't even anywhere close.

Vyse, you're just cherry picking stats. Ray Allen's great, but people have cause to be concerned with him being 32 and coming off ankle surgeries. Yes, he's a shooter, whom tend to age well. It's no guarantee, though.

And as I've stated before, I'm a Cs fan, and I'm in favor of this move.

[Bill Murphy]

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So Kidd, a 9 time All-NBA defensive teamer (including this year), is "quite bad defensively", and Ray Allen, who has made zero All-NBA defensive teams and is widely regarded as a sub par defender, is only "slightly below average" and has had some "great defensive seasons"? Interesting.

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On a slightly related note, Camby was DPOY but IIRC, received NO votes when SI asked other players in an anonymous poll who the best was.

Defense is obvo much harder to quantify past the usual suspects (MJ, Pip, Rodman, Hakeem, Glove, Eaton, etc.)

I've seen wildly divirgent opinions on players defensive abilities, and loads of LOLs at All-D teams & DPOY awards, prolly most notably Karl Malone.

I hate the Celtics, but if Allen's healthy, he & Pierce can coexist, and the East stays this bad, it was IMO a good short-term trade for them. I think the point Simmons made was that Reggie Miller was the only SG he could find who didn't decline noticeably after 32.

As for Simmons' mediocre draft diary, I think he put so much into hoping for Durant, he lost interest once they got the 5. And he did write a ton on the draft in the months leading up.

As for Conley/Wright v Horford/Law, my only comment would be that I think King prolly had little choice going the way he did, on top of the whole Need v BPA quandry.

LOL at MJ comparing J-Rich to himself, after all the talk about GM's picking players that remind them of themselves.

[FlyWf]

Also(much like Randolph and Curry), Pierce and Allen are not complementary players. They do very, very similar things. And being good in the short term is not a good thing for a bad team. The Pistons or Suns can make good short term deals because they are championship contenders. The Celtics best case outcome right now is still way behind the Pistons/Bulls/Cavs level.

[Vyse]

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The Celtics best case outcome right now is still way behind the Pistons/Bulls/Cavs level.

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lololol, obv the Cavs level is so far away

lol @ All-Defensive teams being a good barometer for anything. Yeah, Larry Hughes, one of the league's great defenders.

[kidcolin]

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Also(much like Randolph and Curry), Pierce and Allen are not complementary players. They do very, very similar things.

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ugh.. complain about the money, age, or risk, fine, but I keep hearing assbag journalists say they do the same thing and it's wrong. Allen is a perimeter specialist, especially at this point in his career. And yes, Pierce shoots a decent amount of 3s, but only about half as many as Allen. Pierce is one of the best in the league at getting to the line. He drives a lot. Between defenses collapsing on him and doubling Al, Allen should get lots of good looks.

[EvanJC]

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wow, owned.

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[FlyWf]

Vyse- "lololol, obv the Cavs level is so far away"

Oh, yes, I forgot, in the universe the SE forum inhabits the Cavs only won like 38 games.

In my universe, though, the Cavaliers won more than twice as many games as the Celtics did. Ray Allen is good, but 26 wins good he is not.

kidcolin- Jefferson and Allen are complementary players, but Pierce and Allen aren't. One is a pure shooter, the other is a more well rounded scorer, but neither commands double teams or is a good distributor. They aren't exactly the same player, but they are close.

When I look at Paul Pierce I don't think "Boy, team him with a real good spotup shooter and you're good to go."