1500 WSOP battle of the big stacks - Page 2

WarDekar · #11 07-01-2007, 04:16 PM

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I cant give a free card here.

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If you are ahead I doubt he has more than 5 outs here.

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You don't see hands like J9/T9 (9 outs), Flush draw (9 or more outs, more with a pair or king obv) as reasonable holdings?

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Not particularly, and even so they'd be a very small part of his range and you still give him the chance to stab at pot on river even if he has these and misses.

Any value you might potentially lose from betting out a draw here you're losing wayyyyy more when you're behind and get stacked.

woodguy · #12 07-01-2007, 04:19 PM

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Not particularly, and even so they'd be a very small part of his range and you still give him the chance to stab at pot on river even if he has these and misses.

Any value you might potentially lose from betting out a draw here you're losing wayyyyy more when you're behind and get stacked.

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Agreed

WuTank · #13 07-01-2007, 04:40 PM

I dont talk about getting stacked.
I would likely take my 20k as a b/f line since you have like no real history with him and his chances of bluff cr`ing the turn are real slim imho.

woodguy · #14 07-01-2007, 04:44 PM

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I dont talk about getting stacked.
I would likely take my 20k as a b/f line since you have like no real history with him and his chances of bluff cr`ing the turn are real slim imho.

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Checking behind here is more about getting another bet out of a hand you beat than avoiding a c/r on the turn.

edit: it also avoids the disaster of being c/r off best hand, but that's more a bonus....

WarDekar · #15 07-01-2007, 04:49 PM

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I dont talk about getting stacked.
I would likely take my 20k as a b/f line since you have like no real history with him and his chances of bluff cr`ing the turn are real slim imho.

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But what if he shoves a combo draw knowing he has FE?

potamophobia · #16 07-01-2007, 04:58 PM

Well I would say his most likely hands are JJ, TT, 78. He could also be ahead with T9, or he could have a flush draw. If he happens to have a huge draw like 78c, he could easily be wanting to check raise this turn all in.

Yes, giving a free card can kill you here, but betting allows him to move you off what could be the best hand. If you check this turn, you invite a river bluff from him if he happens to miss. If a blank falls, this guy might also bet JJ or TT thinking they are good. And if this guy checks any blank river to me, I would probably make some sort of value bet. Your line will look so much like a bluff, that he will probably pay off very light.

woodguy · #17 07-01-2007, 05:06 PM

Since TT/JJ is a reasonable chunk of his range that we beat, I see your point, but checking is still better.

Often a hand that beats ours will bet less on the river than our turn bet....that help too.

curtains · #18 07-01-2007, 05:14 PM

I would raise that relatively dangerous flop. Pot has like 50k in it and you have only about 73k after calling. I just don't see why one would be so averse to taking this pot down right away. Just seems like a very strange spot to try to induce a later bluff and to give one (or two) free cards in the process in such a huge pot.

Also its not inconceivable, given your late positions, that you get all the money in with the best hand.

Dave D · #19 07-01-2007, 06:41 PM

I hate giving a free card on this turn, bet 20k or whatever. I think I might check behind on the river. Def if crubs come, or a K, some other cards too maybe.

Why raise PF? Why not just call (assuming you know blinds won't call).

edit: I'm not saying you should just call here, I'm just wondering why you think a raise is better. Also, your intended raise amount seems a little excessive. I don't like AQ enough to try to put that much in the pot yet.

Mr.Poker · #20 07-01-2007, 06:43 PM

I like the flop call, and I check behind on turn with the plan on calling a river bet.

I flat call the flop as getting 4 bet here is a disater IMO, and I want to see what he'll do on the turn before deciding how strong/weak he is. I check behind on turn for the reasons stated above (Woodguy etc...).

If he checks the river, I probably check behind as well, I can't see enough hands in his range that can call a value bet. I probably want to see what his hand is as well, so really wana get to showdown here.