scam at pokerstars

[PeteN]

of course asking yourself why someone would trust you a stranger to send them their $740 is a good question

also, pokerstars forbids anyone from solicting transfers on their site

[Darryl_P]

I don't mean to give you a headache, but I think I made a valid point about why pokerstars may want to consider changing its policy. I'm not sure what the best policy would be, especially since Neteller is not cleared funds either (news to me), maybe not allowing withdrawals of transferred funds for a few days the same way banks hold on to uncleared checks, I don't know.

I figure pokerstars management appreciates constructive criticism and intelligent discussion about their policies.

I'm not saying the guy who got scammed is not at fault at all. Of course he is, but pokerstars has a part in it too for making him think that cash belongs to him when it really doesn't.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to wonder if this is a legit post? If pokerstars is getting illegit money in their system this easy they'd be having more problems than this. I don't think they should be allowing the xfer of uncleared funds, couldn't find anything on their site about this at all except you can do it. I also think it'd be a little dumb to fall for this. Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chargebacks and fraud are a huge problem for online gambling sites!!

[BruinEric]

There is some small amount of protection available. If a players solicits money from you on PokerStars in such a way, you should consider notifying support ASAP.

The REAL protection (as has been said by others on this thread) is to understand that players looking to trade money on sites are frequently scammers.

Players should also understand that the money transfer function on accounts should be used sparingly because such transactions are often a piece of a problem. Those involved in receiving transferred funds from a fraudlent/NSF deposit can often be part of a poker site's investigation. You are somewhat lucky that all your funds weren't seized or put on hold pending investigation. Poker sites do NOT want to be part of a money laundering scheme.

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Pokerstars is wrong to allow transfers of uncleared funds. These sites are happy to collect rake on money that might not be legit, but paying it out is another story. A truly ethical site would do the security checks at the time of the deposit.

Having said that, I think Pokerstars is a good site overall with better customer service than anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with both statements.

If the player had requested a cash out, they certainly would have waited until the credit card cleared. They should do the same for transfers.

[Annorax]

This [censored] wouldn't happen if poker sites applied the same security procedures to transfers as they do to cashouts. PokerStars' history window already lists them as "transfer cashout" and "transfer purchase"... how hard is it to route those requests to the security department for review instead of automatically reversing deposits?

Lee Jones... I know you're reading this, PLEASE consider having this done. I'd feel better if a transfer took time for security to check it out. I'd imagine most 2+2ers would too.

[mbpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
If the player had requested a cash out, they certainly would have waited until the credit card cleared. They should do the same for transfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if then OP would make an arrangement with the scammer to dump chips to him instead of transferring?

The real solution is to be diligent and not fall for obvious scams.

[furious]

I sell a bike to Dick who then goes to the bank to withdraw funds to pay me. A week later the bank determines the money is stolen. Can the bank then come to my house to demand I return the money?

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
I sell a bike to Dick who then goes to the bank to withdraw funds to pay me. A week later the bank determines the money is stolen.

[/ QUOTE ]


???????


how in the world would a bank determine that the funds were stolen in your simplistic analogy?

[Mogobu The Fool]

[ QUOTE ]
If you deposit a personal check to a bank account can you withdraw the funds before it clears? How about at pokerstars? If the guy tried to withdraw his balance shortly after the transfer, would he have been successful?

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter if you can withdraw "the funds." If I have $2k in my account, and a scammer gives me a $1000 check, I can deposit the check and give him $1000 of my cash a day or two later. . . the check will bounce after a week, and I'm stuck. Remember, I paid the scammer out of MY pocket. In theory, I could have even written him (or his accomplics) a check of my own that they could cash -- the check would clear against the funds I already in my account, but his original check to me would never clear.

The situation is similar here. The scammer transfered a balance (like a check) into the victim's PStars account. Did he then withdraw the money from PStars into his bank and wait for it to clear? No. He paid the scammer out of his pocket through Western Union.

So the analogy applies just fine; the only real difference is that PStars does not explicitly tell people that funds ledgered in the system are not necessarily cleared funds, unless they try to withdraw to a bank and then bitch about the funds taking too long to show up. . .

Why do they do this?

Because that's what people want. They want to be able to credit their account from whatever source and be able to play right away. To play, the credit has to be treated by the system as valid. If you choose to play with the money, the site will treat all the action as legit.

The original poster noted: "I feel if pokerstars reverses the money transaction their site performed they are giving the power to the scammers and their legitimate users have no protection against such scams. It was I who was contacted by the scammer not I who initiated contact."

I'm sorry, but I disagree on several counts. Firstly, keeping restrictions on cashouts and reversing fradulent transfers is the only way to protect against scammers! The only additional protection they could provide is to lock ALL incoming money out of play for several days/weeks until the funds clear, and far more users would be upset at that policy, or they could forbid all inter-account transfers, which would also make players angry.

Secondly, even such a restrictive policy would offer no protection to a legitimate user -- someone who would not handle cash for an unknown party. Bear in mind that people who use PStars to transfer cash are NOT legitimate users! PStars is not a banking system; it is a gambling site. Legitimate users use PStars to gamble.

Third, this was not a transaction "their site performed." It's a transaction the scammer and the victim performed; the two of them USED the site. . . and again, they were not using the site for the legitimate and advertised purpose of the site -- playing poker!

Lastly, PStars is not an instant messaging system; the fact that the scammer contacted the victim through PStars and not vice versa is irrelevant; using PStars to hook up with others for financial gain on cash transactions is NOT legitimate use! Game chat is provided to chat at the table, not to plan financial transactions. By the logic of the intial post, the victim should hold MSN liable, too, since the actual scheme was made by chatting on MSN. Obviously, that makes no sense.

If I sound like I'm being hard on the victim, I'm sorry. . . But I'm just telling it like it is. Sometimes life is hard. Doing this transaction was a gamble where Furious risked $740 to gain $60, and lost. He/she fell for a scam; it's a tough way to learn a lesson, but I suspect the lesson is learned. The best that can come of this would be that others learn from Furious' pain and not need to suffer their own.