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#11
06-28-2007, 06:02 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed ou
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fold > raise >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> call, if you catch my drift. [/ QUOTE ] I dont get it [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The only time this can hold true is when we think we have FE with a raise. What hands is villain folding? [/ QUOTE ] I meant pre-flop only. 
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#12
06-28-2007, 06:10 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed out?
Just trying to learn how everyone is thinking about this hand. So with TPTK we're folding the turn because of his hand ranges? Since he raised in EP and with his stats we figure he can't have KJ/QJs. He could have AJ for a split, an overpair, or 66-TT. When the turn comes and he bets into us again, we figure we're beat and put him on an overpair or JTs?
I understand the concept of checking the turn to keep the pot small with only TPTK against a tight player, but i'm trying to understand the fold here against only 1/2 pot sized bets on the turn/river. He couldn't have AcKc/KcQc/66-99? I can understand the fold on a rainbow board, since there's nothing really in his range that he could bet twice into us. But with the flush draw out there I could see him having one of those with overs, or a medium pair trying to not let us draw for free if we had the FD.
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#13
06-28-2007, 06:23 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed out?
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Hand 1: Pre-flop call is fine IMO, but you're hoping to hit a big draw, not call down 3 streets on a J-high flop. Flop call is ok, but you have to fold the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I don't follow the logic of the flop call. What do we know on the turn that we didn't know on the flop? You're not seriously suggesting its ok to stick around just on the off chance another J drops are you? I vote for leading out the flop, if it's called or raised youre pretty much done with the hand. But, I too would almost certainly have folded the first pf and definitely the second.
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#14
06-28-2007, 06:30 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed out?
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I don't follow the logic of the flop call. What do we know on the turn that we didn't know on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] On the flop our hand may be good, on the turn it isn't.
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#15
06-28-2007, 06:46 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed out?
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[ QUOTE ] I don't follow the logic of the flop call. What do we know on the turn that we didn't know on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] On the flop our hand may be good, on the turn it isn't. [/ QUOTE ] In this case the villain is pretty agressive. Do you think that TPTK is no good on the turn just because it is bet again? He may have overcards with a flush draw. I would be interested in your reasoning against this type of player. I believe the hand is marginal as well, but would like your thoughts.
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#16
06-28-2007, 06:52 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed out?
Well, it's close.
I tend to give respect to EP raises without reads. Yes, he may have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but overpair/set are more likely IMO.
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#17
06-28-2007, 07:14 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed out?
[ QUOTE ]
Well, it's close. I tend to give respect to EP raises without reads. Yes, he may have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but overpair/set are more likely IMO. [/ QUOTE ] OK Thanks. I ran some scenarios for this and unless he is flat out being continually aggressive with lower pockets or AK we are at best 50/50 and could be much worse off. That is one of the reasons I hate AJ OOP.
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#18
06-28-2007, 07:46 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed ou
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[ QUOTE ] But once you hit your J you have to check-raise the flop and give villain a chance to lay down AK, AQ, TT. If you get re-raised you can fold. [/ QUOTE ] Ugh, this is just terrible. [/ QUOTE ] So why did we call PF with AJ and don't raise this board? TPTK .. what else do we want? Plus, raising on the flop gives us a better idea of villains hand ... calling down accomplishes nothing.
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#19
06-28-2007, 07:51 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed ou
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But once you hit your J you have to check-raise the flop and give villain a chance to lay down AK, AQ, TT. If you get re-raised you can fold. [/ QUOTE ] Ugh, this is just terrible. [/ QUOTE ] So why did we call PF with AJ and don't raise this board? TPTK .. what else do we want? Plus, raising on the flop gives us a better idea of villains hand ... calling down accomplishes nothing. [/ QUOTE ] Think about what you are trying to accomplish with a raise. Are you trying to fold out a hand that you are a 85%-90% favorite over anyway? Why do you need AJ to do that? I'd rather check-raise air than AJ here. You have a major leak in your thinking if you auto-CR top pair OOP. I suspect this is tournament thinking from when everyone is relatively short stacked and you simply C/R A/I to protect your hand when everyone is short.
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#20
06-28-2007, 07:58 AM
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Re: NL50: AJ Hits Flop, and I call down; when should I have bailed ou
[ QUOTE ]
Well, it's close. I tend to give respect to EP raises without reads. Yes, he may have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but overpair/set are more likely IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah the turn call is really really close. You wouldn't be making a mistake by folding or calling here IMO.
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