Morals at a poker game?

typo · #1 03-02-2006, 02:34 PM

I was playing at the casino yesterday, and a drunk was playing next to me. He kept playing 90% of the hands, raising 20-40e at a 2e/2e 10 player nolimit table. He was sitting to my left so it wasnt the nicest of positions to play out of for me, but the problem is that he kept looking his cards in such a way that both players sitting next to him could see his cards. Now after a while the other player next to him mentioned about it, but he said we could look if we wanted and he didnt care. Now should I look in the other direction each time he looks his cards or just enjoy the advantage?

I'm must be stupid, asking poker players for advise on morals.

Memphis Mojo · #2 03-02-2006, 02:44 PM

This doesn't answer your question, but the dealer should do something, caution him at the least. This isn't fair for most of the players.

Aaron_C · #3 03-02-2006, 02:53 PM

my interpretation of this is that he is providing an unfair advantage to you.
to me this means that he is cheating, not you.
The closest comparison i can come to is when someone folds out of position or bets out of position and it gives you information that changes your action. It is unfair to the other players, but it isn't amoral (immoral sp?) to change your play because of it.

_TKO_ · #4 03-02-2006, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It is unfair to the other players

[/ QUOTE ]

Bicycles_Biatch · #5 03-02-2006, 03:14 PM

I have a similar issue... I have two friends that blatantly collude... it makes me feel a little weird...

I have found that it's just best to remove myself fromt he situation... there are plenty of games across the room.

Aaron_C · #6 03-02-2006, 03:34 PM

I dont think anyone debates that its an unfair advantage, the question is. is it unethical for you to use information that you shouldn't have when you didn't do anything unethical to get it.
I have been in this situation a few times. the first time i told the guy, the second, the dealer told him. (but he continued to do it, and i didn't mention it)
The third i only saw his cards a few times, and didn't say anything. The last was a friendly game, and i just told the guy.
Oddly in all of these occurances the information i gained has never effected my play (to my knowledge).

Again, i do feel its an unfair advantage, but i think the guy who is cheating is the one who is revealing his cards. If there is no dealer to enforce the rules, then the players need to do this (even if its you who benifits) but if there is a professional dealer, i let him do his job (or not) unless the lack of it negatively impacts my game.

Cooder · #7 03-02-2006, 04:03 PM

He was told. You can't force him to stop. You didn't say, but the other players at the table probably heard about it. If they don't like the advantage you might have, they can leave.

Sounds like you did the right thing.

_TKO_ · #8 03-02-2006, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is it unethical for you to use information that you shouldn't have when you didn't do anything unethical to get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. But ask inside traders the same question.

If you always find out his cards, then the properly ethical thing for you to do is call the floor and have the player removed, or always announce to the table every time you see his cards. This neutralizes the unethical advantage. Of course, if you are better able to take advantage of such knowledge, then I don't see why you shouldn't.

markray00 · #9 03-02-2006, 05:57 PM

You look. Case closed. We're not in church.

CaryDarling · #10 03-02-2006, 06:23 PM

If the dealer knows other players are looking then the floor should be called after the guy has been warned...this is the dealer's job not yours.
UNLESS. You are sitting across the table and can't see his cards..then I personally would call the floor if the dealer does nothing.

Poker is a game about information or lack thereof blah blah blah blah...we all know this.

Hell even if I was sitting next to the guy I may notify the floor. Why? So the dealer makes sure he does his job which in part is "maintaining the integrity of the game."

I want a consistently clean game, it's not JUST about "morals." I want to ensure that the games stay good, and the fish feel they have as much a chance as anyone else without the possibility of "collusion," going on whether it's planned or not...and you should too. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]