Two Barrelling is the new C-betting?

[Jurollo]

With the introduction of HOH came a huge shift in the online poker world with things such as the squeeze and a huge increase in the frequency of c-betting from all levels of players. With this we see players c-betting all sorts of flops (connected and unconnected) because they think it is the right thing to do which has a two prong effect:
A) increased implied odds from LP with suited connectors and pairs
B) increased resistance from all players to c-bets

A is pretty self explanatory and doesn't need any discussion, however, how to attack B is what I would like to discuss here. Simply restricting your c-betting to only flops you hit is too exploitable so that is not a viable option to the new poker world. I have started to do a few things and want to know what thoughts others have on this subject.

1) Reducing c-betting on coordinated boards, increasing c-betting on uncoordinated boards
2) I two-barrel FAR more frequently as many people favor floating c-bets in today's world, thus many people will call you with weak holding, waiting the fire on the turn in a checked pot

Anyone else experimenting with this, using different techniques to exploit the lighter calling ranges on c-bets?

[NHFunkii]

there are definitely a lot of players out there who you should be 2barreling a ton (until they catch on)

not sure what you're looking for w/ this thread, but I agree

[Jurollo]

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there are definitely a lot of players out there who you should be 2barreling a ton (until they catch on)

not sure what you're looking for w/ this thread, but I agree

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I am not sure either. I am just curious what people are doing in general to combat people playing back at c-bets a lot lighter then say.... 3-4 months ago.

[Swami54]

[ QUOTE ]

2) I two-barrel FAR more frequently as many people favor floating c-bets in today's world, thus many people will call you with weak holding, waiting the fire on the turn in a checked pot


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How about firing one barrel and c/f the turn in an early hand and when in a pot with the known good player later check again knowing they've noticed the early weak play and they'll bet the turn? With my minimal experimentation a call on the turn instead of a raise after they fire has resulted in them trying to push me off my hand on the river.

[lwrunner103]

I float as a default play. A turn C/R bluff sucks because if you are wrong you've dumped a lot. I don't c-bet air into coordinated flops OOP.

[Todd Terry]

If you think too hard about this question, as I have a few times, you'll convince yourself that: tournament poker is unbeatable; cards don't matter at all; when everyone plays as if cards don't matter at all, the only thing that matters is the cards; for every move you make you are playing exploitably and there is a profitable countermove to be made; varying your frequency of c-bets depending on the texture of the board is a signal likely to be picked up by perceptive opponents; I despise getting constantly called when I raise preflop and then make a c-bet, so it's probably a good thing to do to someone else; the deeper you are willing to go into a hand, the more likely you are to win the pot, but the more likely you are to get burned very badly when you don't. Perhaps soon three barreling and then moving in when you get raised on the river will be the new c-bet.

[Foucault]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think too hard about this question, as I have a few times, you'll convince yourself that: tournament poker is unbeatable; cards don't matter at all; when everyone plays as if cards don't matter at all, the only thing that matters is the cards; for every move you make you are playing exploitably and there is a profitable countermove to be made; varying your frequency of c-bets depending on the texture of the board is a signal likely to be picked up by perceptive opponents; I despise getting constantly called when I raise preflop and then make a c-bet, so it's probably a good thing to do to someone else; the deeper you are willing to go into a hand, the more likely you are to win the pot, but the more likely you are to get burned very badly when you don't. Perhaps soon three barreling and then moving in when you get raised on the river will be the new c-bet.

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I like this guy.

[Bigdaddydvo]

Justin,

If you would just get all your chips in PF, you wouldn't have to worry about this C-bet shenanigans.

On a serious note, I've noticed that the 1/2 pot C-bet advocated in HOH almost NEVER gets respect any more. Anyone else have this experience? Seems the 2/3 pot bet does better, but has the obvious consequence of getting floated all the worse.

[ur2barredout]

As far as the half pot bet I agree that it gets little respect, but I feel there is a trade off. When you hit the flop you are going to get paid off by weaker hands on the turn and river.( I don't know if the trade off is worth it, ideally since we aren't hitting the flop that often we'd prefer to get respect with the bet.) I find a lot of people unwilling to give up medium pairs even with 2 or 3 overs because they interpret the flop bet as weak, and they just go along for the ride. I also have had some success three betting min check raisers on the flop after I make my half pot bet cb.

[KneeCo]

Online a lot of this is true ( but you can very often successfully cbet light live). You make a valid point, but I need two things clarified.
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because they think it is the right thing to do which has a two prong effect:
A) increased implied odds from LP with suited connectors and pairs

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Really shouldn't (A) read 'position is more valuable than ever', in so far as the implication isn't limited to increasing the hands that can be played in LP, but where people are clearly familiar with cbetting, a player's hands are further tied in EP.

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2) I two-barrel FAR more frequently as many people favor floating c-bets in today's world, thus many people will call you with weak holding, waiting the fire on the turn in a checked pot

[/ QUOTE ]
While I see your point and one certainly has to adjust to the frequency of floats these day this is dangerous IMO. You're essentially advocating committing at least 12 BBs *regularly* post flop with air ('far more frequently' as you say, given that cbetting is easily the most common form of post flop bluffing), and 12 BBs is figuring conservatively at two 1/2 pot barrels in a HU pot when we know for a lot of people 3/4 is the new 1/2.