Is a river bet standard?

[CarpeDiem]

New to table, few reads. Is a river bet standard?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, Button calls.

Turn: (3.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (5.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero??

[00Snitch]

I donk the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Is that really bad?

[CarpeDiem]

I think donking the flop is fine on occasion but it will only get you action when someone else has some sort of equity in the pot: ie a decent pair or a decent draw. Most donks will bet last to act and will bet with no equity thus gaining for you.

[00Snitch]

I dont think that makes any sense. You can't assume that he will just fire off a random bluff into two opponents after limping preflop.

Regardless, if he does bet, what is the point of raising when UTG will fold a worse hand that can't draw profitably getting 5:1 (if you call) or will call correctly if you raise. i.e. he will fold his gutshot/pp/lowpair to your raise, but he will call incorrectly with them if you call. If you raise he will correctly fold his gutshot/pp/lowpair and correctly call his flushdraw.

On the other side of the coin, despite the small pot, I really don't want to give a free card to two limping hands when they will call your bet with lots of worse hands. i.e. there are lots of pairs and gutshots that will call incorrectly on this flop.

Am I being noob....?

[sweetjazz]

I like how you played this hand to this point. River depends on a read, but check/calling this river has a lot of merit. You might snap off a bluff and you will rarely find a villain who bets the ideal range versus your hand. What I mean is that some villains will check behind small pairs but also some jacks with marginal kickers; others will value bet every jack but will also typically valuebet some 7s as well.

If your opponent is aggressive and spewy, check/calling seems ideal. If he is passive and predictable, I think you can safely bet/fold this river.

[CarpeDiem]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think that makes any sense. You can't assume that he will just fire off a random bluff into two opponents after limping preflop.


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At 5/10 it is incredibly rare for flops to get checked through, though open-limping is seen.

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Regardless, if he does bet, what is the point of raising when UTG will fold a worse hand that can't draw profitably getting 5:1 (if you call) or will call correctly if you raise. i.e. he will fold his gutshot/pp/lowpair to your raise, but he will call incorrectly with them if you call. If you raise he will correctly fold his gutshot/pp/lowpair and correctly call his flushdraw.


[/ QUOTE ]

I c/r to get overs and raggedy draws out. If he has a good draw I have charged him more. If I'm behind I made a bad choice. Lots of times 2nd pair will call out of spite, heck, they may think that I'm on a draw and getting out of line.

[ QUOTE ]

On the other side of the coin, despite the small pot, I really don't want to give a free card to two limping hands when they will call your bet with lots of worse hands. i.e. there are lots of pairs and gutshots that will call incorrectly on this flop.




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I'm not too worried about free cards since it's a tiny pot. I won't lose much here.

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Am I being noob....?

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Naah, good food for thought.

[00Snitch]

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I c/r to get overs and raggedy draws out


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My whole point is that you don't] want overs and raggedy draws to fold. You want them to call. Infact, you pretty much want him to call with everything up to about 8-9 outs.

[TheWunderkind]

[ QUOTE ]
I donk the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Is that really bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

i do it all the Time, in my Games ppl chk the Flop trough all the Time, if teh Players are bad/passive (wich seems to be true because they limped and hero is sitting at the table with them) i like donking much more then c/r.

[context]

I think the river looks good for a c/c. You'd like a read on the calling station and it looks like he could have a busted flush draw. You might be giving up something if he'd call down any part, but the info should be worth it.