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#42
06-25-2007, 02:19 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
Referring to Fiskal's point 3 :
I'm not disagreeing with the post and I appreciate the ideas, but I wonder if at the low stakes I play, 10NL, if loosening up like that is as good as you say. Obviously, I'd prefer to be in position, but a calling station will call or check-call - it doesn't seem to matter. So you raise with J-7 from the button and you flop a J - I presume you c-bet, but the guy has his beloved J-9 sooted UTG - ( why does he care if he's UTG or not? ) he'll sit there and check-call - if you check - he'll bet and you either call and lose (weak) or raise to see where you're at (expensive) or fold. There's probably another TAG or a LAG at the table and he'll start seeing you're raising light and he'll start 3-betting you. So now, if you start running hot, you'll make some money, but if you're missing the flops you'll spew a lot of bets like that. I guess that's where experience will help, but it really does seem like tight is better, at least at 10NL. 
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#43
06-25-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
[ QUOTE ]
27/24 has a better shot at working in the higher limits than at uNL, provided you are a good player that knows how to play flops. [/ QUOTE ] So you're saying it's hard (or at least harder) to make this style work in the micros? Anyway, I didn't mean to say that a 27/24 strategy can't work at higher levels (and, actually, I don't think I did say that, but it was a rambling post, I know). But I do think the postflop follow-up is going to have to be more nuanced/sophisticated than the simpler postflop strategies that work in the micros. Which isn't a profound statement or anything, I realize. But another point that I was trying to make is that we shouldn't kid ourselves that all of the things we do to adapt to the way NL25/NL50 plays are entirely sound from a theoretical standpoint. So that's why we're going to have to adjust when up against better players.
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#44
06-25-2007, 02:39 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
I think it is harder, because the whole point of playing more hands is to disguise your range and make it easier to get your monsters paid. uNL opponents don't understand what you're doing, and end up putting you in more blind spots than higher level opponents would. While they're easier to play against postflop, it's more profitable to play a 22/18 game at uNL and value bet the [censored] out of them than to try and make bold maneuvers after the flop.
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#45
06-25-2007, 04:08 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
There are some excellent points made here. Personally I've been playing 10NL @ 20-23 VPIP and its been working great over the 3k or so hands I've played at this level... obviously there is more to the game then simple VPIP (my style is aggro) and I need a lot more hands to substantiate any claims but playing this range in position has worked well so far. Lets see what happens in another 10k hands...
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#46
06-25-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
Some awesome advice here. I 100% agree with what Fiksdal is saying about the 14/8/4 player vs. the 24/20/2.5 player. If the 14/8/4 player makes a 4xBB raise PF and you have a speculative hand like 78s its a no brainer call because when you flop 2-pair or a monster draw that ends up hitting, you're gonna felt this guy. He is gonna have AQ+, TT+ and is gonna c-bet the flop and will probably fire another bullet on the turn
Makes a lot of sense
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#47
06-25-2007, 05:22 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
Great thread and props to fiksdal and Nick. I've been recently thinking that against a good tag setmining just is'nt profitable because you dont get paid when you hit unless villain has at least an overpair or big draw, which is rare against a 25/20 tag.
I still dont like the idea of folding pp's preflop for one raise though. If the player is a thinker I will occasionally just 3bet them with any PP. This works great if their range is wide enough as they'll dump a lot of stuff right away or fold the flop a fair bit too. And there's simply nothing better than flopping a set of deuces in a 3bet pot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Basically, though if you're not getting action on your sets, then you're not donking, raising, and floating enough flops. NLHTAP discusses on how profitable it is to be more aggressive preflop and on the flop. At uNL I dont think it's that great idea to get too involved in betting/calling turns and rivers without something strong or a good read, but the extra action you give preflop and on the flop can get you paid off on the turns and rivers which are usually much more important.
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#48
06-25-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
how can you say this
[ QUOTE ] Great thread and props to fiksdal and Nick. I've been recently thinking that against a good tag setmining just is'nt profitable because you dont get paid when you hit unless villain has at least an overpair or big draw, which is rare against a 25/20 tag. [/ QUOTE ] and then say this [ QUOTE ] I still dont like the idea of folding pp's preflop for one raise though. If the player is a thinker I will occasionally just 3bet them with any PP. This works great if their range is wide enough as they'll dump a lot of stuff right away or fold the flop a fair bit too. And there's simply nothing better than flopping a set of deuces in a 3bet pot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ]
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#49
06-25-2007, 05:32 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
[ QUOTE ]
how can you say this [ QUOTE ] Great thread and props to fiksdal and Nick. I've been recently thinking that against a good tag setmining just is'nt profitable because you dont get paid when you hit unless villain has at least an overpair or big draw, which is rare against a 25/20 tag. [/ QUOTE ] and then say this [ QUOTE ] I still dont like the idea of folding pp's preflop for one raise though. If the player is a thinker I will occasionally just 3bet them with any PP. This works great if their range is wide enough as they'll dump a lot of stuff right away or fold the flop a fair bit too. And there's simply nothing better than flopping a set of deuces in a 3bet pot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] i see no contradiction here.
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#50
06-25-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: What are the problems with running too nitty at the micro stakes??
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, then he will usually proceed to stack off on K/T-high flops. [/ QUOTE ] No offence dude, but fish usually stack off with those hands anyway. When they suckout and u ask them why they called the push, they say, hey I had Top pair with decent kicker. If they actually NOTICE u raising alot of hands, theyr not fish anymore in my book lol. Cos usually when i sit with a 50/6/1 guy or something he doesnt notice [censored]. I can fold for 25 minutes and he will still stack with those hands. Those guy sjust look at their hands and think hey i got top pair lets go allin. Usually the semi 'good players' think like this, they know something about the game, and think theyr something, and pay a little attention.
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