Why No Dead Button?

[CincyLady]

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I was wondering... why do some casinos not want to have a "dead button"? Is this better for the players or for the house?

For instance, Winstar in OK:

If the SB gets knocked out, the next hand the button moves to the person to the left of that person (now the SB & the Button). Then there are 2 big blinds to the left of the button. After that hand, the button moves left, and that guy posts the SB, the person to his left also posts a SB, and the next person posts a BB. The following hand it "fixes itself" since the next button has posted both the SB & the BB.

This seems far too complicated -- would be much easier to just have a dead button. I'm not sure what they do when the BB gets knocked out. I guess there is no SB on the next hand.

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Yeah, I had this happen to me (for the first time) when I was playing at Harrah's in CB Iowa. Confused the hell out of me it did. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Even now it still feels like I had to pay an extra blind that I normally wouldn't of had to (in a dead small blind/dead button situation).

[Lottery Larry]

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i think that method is fine i dont know why they would have 2 BBs

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One, it's supposed to promote more action- there will be more blind money on the table, and players who miss one BB hand don't have to worry about waiting for the button to pass them... or have the "buy the button" rule.

Two, to make sure (oh HORROR of HORRORS) someone doesn't get the button twice, you HAVE to do two BB at one point.

Players A-D. C is BB, D is small blind and busts out.

Now, C gets the button under "must move" rule. But, he can't skip a blind, so he's a SB as well.

Player B posts a BB as expected, since he was UTG last hand. However, since Player B will get the button on the next hand, they have to have Player A ALSO post a BB (because he's two to the left of the button, or the "real" BB). So, 2 BB, and 1 SB on the button, are on the table.

Next hand, Player B has the button, with a SB. Player A posts a SB, as he should. The player to A's left posts the BB, as he should. 1 BB, 2 SB.

The next hand, we're all fixed, as Player A is the button with no blinds posted and a SB and BB are posted to his left, in the correct positions.

Each player paid all of their blinds (1 SB, 1 BB) correctly. Each player only had the button once.

Make sense?



Here's another goofy one: Players A-F, with F in the SB. E and F leave the table.

Player D was UTG, so now he's a BB with the button. Player C hasn't posted yet, so he has to post a BB in the SB position. I don't know if any room makes Player B post the "correct" BB here, or if they wait a hand (can you have 3 BB on the table with a must move?)

The next hand, Player D posts SB in the cutoff, Player C post a SB on the button... Player B might be posting a SB in the SB position, or a BB in the SB position... and Player A posts the BB either way.

So you end up with FOUR posted blinds- either 3 SB and 1 BB or 2 of each.

(In this scenario, with the dead button rule, Player G would have had the button 3 times. So, there's something to be said for the must move)

It's actually pretty straightforward, once you get used to the flow... but trying to explain it to people during a game gets shaky, I'll bet.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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It's actually pretty straightforward, once you get used to the flow... but trying to explain it to people during a game gets shaky, I'll bet.

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Describing the extremely unusual and tricky scenarios in writing is sort of like describing tying ones shoes in writing; it's simply easier to show it in person.

The key thing is to always move the button forward to an active player and that two blinds (or the normal number of blinds) must be posted clockwise from the button. Very rarely would you get more than one trailing blinds and since it's rare the floor should have time to check it.

If a game goes to head up or three way (when a group leaves all at once) you can get some problems but it's usually fixed by the players or the players working with a floor.

~ Rick

[RR]

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If a game goes to head up or three way (when a group leaves all at once) you can get some problems but it's usually fixed by the players or the players working with a floor.


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This reminds me of an interesting thing I saw around 99 or 2k. There was a heads up 60-120 at Crystal Park and John Bonnetti walks in and wants to play. He sits down and they tell him if he wants to post it will Be $60 and then he will be the big blind the next hand. He says "I'll wait a hand." He sits out a hand and then they tell him if he wants to post it will be $60 and then he will be the big blind the next hand. Now he goes crazy a little bit and has 10 $100 bills in front of him (short buy I guess). He posts and manages to get his entire $1k in and lose. Next hand he is the BB. Someone (a backer perhaps) standing behind him ahnd him another 10 $100 bills. He gets those in the next hand and loses and storms off towards his hotel room.

[Lottery Larry]

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He sits down and they tell him if he wants to post it will Be $60 and then he will be the big blind the next hand. He says "I'll wait a hand." He sits out a hand and then they tell him if he wants to post it will be $60 and then he will be the big blind the next hand. Now he goes crazy a little bit and has 10 $100 bills in front of him (short buy I guess). He posts and manages to get his entire $1k in and lose. Next hand he is the BB.

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Wait, how could he be two from the BB and NOT know when his BB would be? And how could he post the first time and be the BB "on the next hand", if he could wait one hand and be in the same situation?

Color me confused...
LL