The winners at poker (especially in B&M cardrooms)

[tomalechat]

This is a post I wrote for a swiss forum (where I live) but I didn't have a lot of comments on it. I think the majority of people there have just no idea of what I was really talking about... I'm sure you have more to say.

I wrote this post after returning from Paris where I went to play poker at the Aviation Club de France (ACF) and some other cardrooms. We don't have places to play in Switzerland.
I played mostly in the 2€-2€ cash-games (about $2,7).

Appologize for my english...

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I've just come back from a couple of "Pokerdays" in Paris and I ask myself a lot of questions about the gains and the winnners at Poker.

People I saw playing have just no idea about the probability and the mathematical aspects of poker. All the people I saw there will call you on the flop if they caught a piece of a draw and the price they have to pay is not important. They'll call an overbet if they feel like...
It's also common to see people calling a big bet on a draw where they may be drawing dead (FD or SD with a pair on the board, etc)

I saw a lot of players with big stacks at the tables. I said to myself: "Whoa, I'll keep from entering a pot with him. He seems to know what he's doing". But a couple of hands later I realised that he was also clueless and would lose his stack on a gutshot straight draw or on a silly move...

So here's my thinking: The GREAT majority of those who play there is losing. Actually I think that people are just exchanging the money between them. They only win when lady luck is on their side or when they're in a good run... They give the money back to the others when they're running bad (LOL). The problem is that the house takes its share on the flow of money and thus everybody is a loser (except those who play very well and it seems like they are not a lot).

Maybe it's a bit generalized but I swear you that during four days of playing I've seen only three people who knew what odd meant and had some logic in their game.
I'm not saying either that it's easy to win there. I won during these four days but not much. I don't say either that a player who doesn't know much about the odds and all that stuff can't win, but he has to compensate with other skills.

I don't think I'm a hundred pourcent right in what I'm saying but I always wondered why some people said that only 15% of the online-players where winners. Actually, I think that in these cardrooms it's MUCH, MUCH less than that. The rakes are so big and the players so BAD!
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Again, sorry for my english. I hope you understood what I mean. I'd like to hear your reactions.

[Arito]

A decent player should clean up at the ACP, so no, they are not exchanging money amongst themselves, some are raking it in.

[Nielsio]

It's true that the rake is killer, but the level of play makes up for it (and then some).

[wazz]

Action at ACF is nutso. I saw lots of people betting 2-300 euros into a 20 euro pot, and you could often look down at top pair no kicker and *know* it's good. I ran hot as sh*t when I was there and I made 10x as much as I took with me. The standard of play is pretty bad.

[ACChan]

on what limit was your experience guys?
R the fish across all stakes?
im planning to go there in a couple of months!

[wazz]

I started off at small stakes NLHE, which was 1-2 euros, and that was fishy as hell. 2-5 and 5-10 were also very fishy but there were a couple of 'sharks' who sorta knew what they were doing. They only really competent guy I came across was playing the high limit mixed games, an english guy.

[nichtsnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
We don't have places to play in Switzerland.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that?

Grand Casino Basel
Grand Casino Luzern
Grand Casino St.Gallen
Casino Barrière de Montreux
Casino Lugano
Grand Casino Baden
Grand Casino Bern

[React1oN]

tl;dr

[tomalechat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We don't have places to play in Switzerland.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that?

Grand Casino Basel
Grand Casino Luzern
Grand Casino St.Gallen
Casino Barrière de Montreux
Casino Lugano
Grand Casino Baden
Grand Casino Bern

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, there are CG in Bern, Basel and Montreux but the stakes are too high and it's only a couple days a week and from like 8pm to 2am...

[_JoeJimJoe]

whats the biggest game they run on a daily basis?