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#11
06-24-2007, 01:14 AM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
I check river and pwn his bluff [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he called $85 more with just a draw, but I could be wrong. Looks a lot more like a turned two pair or something, yeah? 
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#12
06-24-2007, 01:18 AM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I check river and pwn his bluff [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he called $85 more with just a draw, but I could be wrong. Looks a lot more like a turned two pair or something, yeah? [/ QUOTE ] I can see a draw here. I have taken lines like this and get shown ridic stuff on the river. More likely than 2 pair though is 87/67/57 so a check is probably better against those hands
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#13
06-24-2007, 01:47 AM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
yeah I don't hate a check/call
I disagree that a lot of his range isn't draws. He could easily have a combo draw. Plus you lose less if he did boat up. Bet/folding river would make me feel sick
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#14
06-24-2007, 02:24 AM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Villain is 40/20 ish. Clear bet right, but how much? Also, is this a bet/fold or a bet/call if we get raised? I'm pretty sure I hate this river card since a decent amount of his range filled up, meh. Opinions? Party Poker No Limit Hold'em Cash Game $1/$2 Blinds 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter) Hero (SB): $385.20 BB: $426.41 UTG: $213.47 CO: $98.10 BTN: $225.55 Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players) UTG folds, CO calls $2.00, BTN folds, Hero calls $1.00, BB checks Flop: ($6) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets $5.00</font>, BB calls $5.00, <font color="red">CO raises to $10.00</font>, Hero calls $5.00, BB calls $5.00 Turn: ($36) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players) Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $15.00</font>, CO calls $15.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $100.00</font>, BB calls $85.00, CO folds River: ($251) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero ??? [/ QUOTE ] 3bet flop next time. [/ QUOTE ] I see no reason to 3bet the flop. [/ QUOTE ] clean up your outs. Someone else might have a higher flush draw or 9T and and kill your str8 outs if the 9T straight hits
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#15
06-24-2007, 02:29 AM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Villain is 40/20 ish. Clear bet right, but how much? Also, is this a bet/fold or a bet/call if we get raised? I'm pretty sure I hate this river card since a decent amount of his range filled up, meh. Opinions? Party Poker No Limit Hold'em Cash Game $1/$2 Blinds 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter) Hero (SB): $385.20 BB: $426.41 UTG: $213.47 CO: $98.10 BTN: $225.55 Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players) UTG folds, CO calls $2.00, BTN folds, Hero calls $1.00, BB checks Flop: ($6) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets $5.00</font>, BB calls $5.00, <font color="red">CO raises to $10.00</font>, Hero calls $5.00, BB calls $5.00 Turn: ($36) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players) Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $15.00</font>, CO calls $15.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $100.00</font>, BB calls $85.00, CO folds River: ($251) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero ??? [/ QUOTE ] 3bet flop next time. [/ QUOTE ] I see no reason to 3bet the flop. [/ QUOTE ] clean up your outs. Someone else might have a higher flush draw or 9T and and kill your str8 outs if the 9T straight hits [/ QUOTE ] 3 betting the flop probably doesn't fold out higher flush draws (this is Party Poker after all). And T9 does not steal any of my outs. 6 makes me the nuts and a T gives me the second nut straight, only behind Q9 which is a flopped gutshot. And if I hit a flush when somebody makes a straight I could win a biggish pot, fwiw.
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#16
06-24-2007, 02:57 AM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Villain is 40/20 ish. Clear bet right, but how much? Also, is this a bet/fold or a bet/call if we get raised? I'm pretty sure I hate this river card since a decent amount of his range filled up, meh. Opinions? Party Poker No Limit Hold'em Cash Game $1/$2 Blinds 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter) Hero (SB): $385.20 BB: $426.41 UTG: $213.47 CO: $98.10 BTN: $225.55 Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players) UTG folds, CO calls $2.00, BTN folds, Hero calls $1.00, BB checks Flop: ($6) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets $5.00</font>, BB calls $5.00, <font color="red">CO raises to $10.00</font>, Hero calls $5.00, BB calls $5.00 Turn: ($36) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players) Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $15.00</font>, CO calls $15.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $100.00</font>, BB calls $85.00, CO folds River: ($251) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero ??? [/ QUOTE ] 3bet flop next time. [/ QUOTE ] I see no reason to 3bet the flop. [/ QUOTE ] clean up your outs. Someone else might have a higher flush draw or 9T and and kill your str8 outs if the 9T straight hits [/ QUOTE ] 3 betting the flop probably doesn't fold out higher flush draws (this is Party Poker after all). And T9 does not steal any of my outs. 6 makes me the nuts and a T gives me the second nut straight, only behind Q9 which is a flopped gutshot. And if I hit a flush when somebody makes a straight I could win a biggish pot, fwiw. [/ QUOTE ] What I meant was that if a Q or 7 hit, and your up against 9T, your can no longer win the pot with your str8 outs. (although honestly, this only a minor point with regard to this hand) Basically, What I was saying was that your not really drawing to the nuts in this hand, so I could definitely see merit in 3betting. however I've never played at party, and I don't know if your have FE. I definitely think that both calling and 3betting are both +ev, but being OOP in this hand, I'd be more inclined to 3bet.
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#17
06-24-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
Ok, I bet $122, he called with J6 and MHIG.
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#18
06-24-2007, 04:40 PM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
I see no reason to 3bet the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I do. I generally have a huge equity advantage, yet probably the worst hand. I want to 3-bet and get them to fold better hands. If they play back I have a strong enough hand to get AI. The flop is my last chance at fold equity and by calling the minraise I have minimized the payoff if I hit. I would 3-bet this to $35 and prepare to lead strongly on the turn if I hit any of my outs. I would also lead strongly any non-spade Q/K/A on the turn.
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#19
06-24-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I see no reason to 3bet the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I do. I generally have a huge equity advantage, yet probably the worst hand. I want to 3-bet and get them to fold better hands. If they play back I have a strong enough hand to get AI. The flop is my last chance at fold equity and by calling the minraise I have minimized the payoff if I hit. I would 3-bet this to $35 and prepare to lead strongly on the turn if I hit any of my outs. I would also lead strongly any non-spade Q/K/A on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I don't have a huge equity advantage at all, and the point is that I'm not really folding out that many hands by 3 betting, plus stack sizes are pretty akward. One guy has 50bbs and I'd gladly get it in against him, and the other guy I am 200bbs deep with who I definitely don't want to get all in with OR force out with a 3bet. I really wouldn't even want to get all in here with 100bbs in a limped pot with just a draw. The thing is if I 3 bet the flop I get BB to fold hands that I want him sticking around with. If I hit my straight and he turns two pair or something like what happened here, I could win a big pot. If I 3bet the flop I doubt he sticks around with one pair. Sure I might have some fold equity, but the pot isn't big at this point so I'm not really worried about fold equity in a 20bb pot. And as you see here, I was able to win a lot in a limped pot playing the flop passively by making an oversized turn raise. If the board hadn't paired I probably would have bet near pot on the river and he undoubtedly would have called with his two pair and I would have netted like 150bbs+. The point is that I'm not looking for fold equity and when I go crazy and 3 bet the flop I'm folding out a lot of hands that might pay me off big time later in the hand.
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#20
06-24-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: Nut straight 200bbs deep, river pairs board :(
In the long run you want to fold out J6 in this hand on the flop, but the results have skewed your mindset. The turn card (and the other non-spade 6) was the only card he could have hit that would pay off your oversized turn bet.
Also, I raise this preflop about 95% of the time.
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