Bill Chen accused of collusion?

[NicksDad1970]

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If he called the floor over and the floor approved of it then he did NOTHING wrong.

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Absolutely.

Yes you can be confused that he asked. Yes you can be confused that the OK was given.

But to claim the Bill Chen did ANYTHING unacceptable or unethical is simply wrong.

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But his intent means quite a bit. The difference in involuntary manslaughter and first degree murder is some type of probation vs death penalty.

[WarDekar]

I wouldn't have an issue if, for instance, they had about even chips, and they both were like "alright, let's trade 25% of eachother" and still played it out. My issue is that they essentially "rigged" it so the better player would advance.

How is this any different from someone chip-dumping in a regular MTT for a certain % of action? It's the exact same thing IMO, and chip dumping is obviously wrong.

AFAIK there are no deal making allowed in any WSOP events, at least to the extent of Harrah's getting involved - if someone wants to make a deal they can but Harrah's will not facilitate it.

I don't know, this whole thing just seems ridiculous to me that a.) it was allowed to begin with and b.) that certain people think it ISN'T an issue.

I can't fault Chen, it was allowed by the TD which means I'd probably do it if I were in Chen's situation as well and the deal was offered, but I still think it's absurd and the fact that the TD allowed it is just another testament to the pathetic staff Harrah's employs and has running the WSOP.

[Apathy]

Shaniac,

you are way off on this one. Making a deal for the advancement of one or two players cause in the middle of a tournament is clearly wrong. This is really really similar to just buying someone elses chips next to you in the middle of an MTT.

I guess noone else wants to say it but I think Bill should have realised this was ethically wrong and not even asked the floor hoping to get a poor, favorable ruling by someone who presumably (based on the ruling) doesnt understand shootout tournaments.

[durrrr]

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Shaniac,

you are way off on this one. Making a deal for the advancement of one or two players cause in the middle of a tournament is clearly wrong. This is really really similar to just buying someone elses chips next to you in the middle of an MTT.

I guess noone else wants to say it but I think Bill should have realised this was ethically wrong and not even asked the floor hoping to get a poor, favorable ruling by someone who presumably (based on the ruling) doesnt understand shootout tournaments.

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while i agree... and think bill was definitely wrong, i still don't think he should be penalize, seeing as the floor 'sponsored' his decision

[AtlBrvs4Life]

I can not believe how many people see nothing wrong with what Bill did. To me, it is obviously unethical and amounts to the same thing as paying someone to dump chips to you in a regular tournament. The equity of everyone else in the tournament is effected unfairly. If Bill ended up winning the bracelet, it would be wrong to say he earned it because he would have paid for it, at least partially.

[nath]

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Shaniac,

you are way off on this one. Making a deal for the advancement of one or two players cause in the middle of a tournament is clearly wrong. This is really really similar to just buying someone elses chips next to you in the middle of an MTT.

I guess noone else wants to say it but I think Bill should have realised this was ethically wrong and not even asked the floor hoping to get a poor, favorable ruling by someone who presumably (based on the ruling) doesnt understand shootout tournaments.

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OK, good, I was starting to wonder if I was crazy for a second there

[uclabruinz]

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Shaniac,

you are way off on this one. Making a deal for the advancement of one or two players cause in the middle of a tournament is clearly wrong. This is really really similar to just buying someone elses chips next to you in the middle of an MTT.

I guess noone else wants to say it but I think Bill should have realised this was ethically wrong and not even asked the floor hoping to get a poor, favorable ruling by someone who presumably (based on the ruling) doesnt understand shootout tournaments.

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Agree. Shane, I'm shocked you don't see it this way.

[Burno]

I've heard countless stories about how smart Bill Chen is. Dude's undeniably a genius of one of the highest orders.



But isn't smart enough to see why this isn't cool?



Calling the floor over and getting their approval lessens the offense in my mind, but its unfathomable he doesn't see whats wrong with this.


AFAIK, and I'm not 100%, Chen plays online as part of a team with Ankerman(?) and Matros(?). They've been forthcoming about playing as a team(since there is no OMTAH rule online). They've been extremely clear that absolutely no collusion takes place whatsoever. Their solid reputations and well-reasoned arguments regarding their corporation left very few concerned about anything shady going on, myself included.


I mention this not to cast rehash old gossip or cast doubt on it, but to show that they were honest, careful, and rational when met with a situation that could potentially be perceived as unethical, it was dealt with appropriately.


If I were TD I wouldn't eject or penalize Chen. I would just make it clear to all that this isn't cool, half-expecting Chen to drop his head a bit as I glared at him.

[RoundTower]

this post is definitely wrong.

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"any deals would result in disqualification,"

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this has never been the case.

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When I asked Jack Effel about this, he essentially told me he prefer it if players keep any deals they make private and away from the table.

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this has always been the case. WSOP do not sanction any deals. If you work something out "informally", they cannot stop you, but they don't enforce it if the other guy decides he wants to walk away with first prize.

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No self-respecting poker player oughta give up his shot at a WSOP win for 25% of Bill Chen's action

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this makes no sense. 25% of Bill Chen's action before the tournament started was worth $1175. More if you think he is an above average player. I've given up my shots at almost all the WSOP events for $nothing.

[AngusThermopyle]

At least use a correct term:

Main Entry: col·lu·sion
Pronunciation: k&-'lü-zh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin collusion-, collusio, from colludere
: <font color="red">secret </font> agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose