I think I found a spot for a free SD raise

[sharpie]

People who don't appear to be overly aggressive?

[HOWMANY]

Yeah to be honest since I didn't see a player description in the beginning of the post I didn't know there was one but I would probably still play it the same. Even people that aren't overly aggressive go insane sometimes when they have TOP PAIR or 8+diamond of any kind or Ad that might catch a pair.

[siegfriedandroy]

im not sure about free downing here. isnt free s'downing usually done when you can fold to a 3bet? what is your plan if 3bet here? if his wtsd is sufficiently high (say 38+), i think it is safe to value the riv here every time, especially has you say he is not overly aggro, in which case you might even be able to bet/fold, no?

[boc4life]

Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on villain's flop check/3-bet and trying to do too much hand-reading...But I really don't think so. People in SB's spot with the Ad really hate to check and call 2 bets cold because it makes their hand totally transparent (A valid concern?)

Yes, getting 3 bet on the turn would be a total disaster, but as I said, villain was not overly aggressive. I went to PT and checked, AF of 1.05 over ~200 hands. I think I can fold to a turn 3bet, because I don't think villain will 3bet with less than a set. He's almost definitely not going to do anything crazy like 3bet KxJd

I just think it's a real disaster for me to call the turn, blank on river, villain check/folds his Ad.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like an easy calldown to me without more of a read, those who think it's a turn raise and river bet, what am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Value.

[Neko]

[ QUOTE ]
Value bet river. He'll call you with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] all day.

[/ QUOTE ]

word. I'm on the fence about the turn raise, but this is a v. standard value bet on the river.

[Unphased]

I like calling down... if he has the flush draw, hes gonna donk the river regardless; atleast he should, so raising the turn doesnt buy you a free river. And if he 3 bets the turn you actually puke

[kiddo]

Stoxtrader gives 5 conditions to think about when to raise for a free showdown (p. 181) and he says that at least some of these conditions must be true:

1. Your oppononet may be bluffing or semibluffing.

2. Your oppononet may fold a better hand.

3. You dont have many outs, making it easier to fold if 3bet.

4. Your opponent rates to have six or more outs.

5. Your opponent is unlikely to bluff river if u just call.

*

In this case:

1. Semiyes, if he was more aggressive (semi)bluff is more likely.

2. Nope.

3. Yes, I think u can fold to a 3bet. (but not all here think that)

4. Yes.

5. Nope.

All in all, since he normally will bet river again if he semibluffing and since he never will fold a better hand u should either raise for value or call down. Against some aggressive guys its an easy valueraise (on turn or river as Ilovpoker said), aganinst others its a call down.

*

Personally, I t often do the free showdown raise against pretty, but not overly, aggressive players that I think are on a draw. Typical: I raise pocketpair, they call in BB, flop got 1 or 2 overcards to my pair and is a bit drawish. They checkraise and bet turn. I raise turn and check behind on river. I win more if they are on a draw that they hadnt bet on river and I lose the same when behind. If they are overly aggressive all this is trickier cause they will 3bet turn 2 much and bluff river 2 much to make it a good play. If they are 2 passive its not as good cause they will not be on a draw often enough.