$200 NL | Butchered two pair has to make a river decesion.

[Rolon]

Villain is 17/7/7.0 over 55 hands and is capable of making a move. 3-bet flop, bet turn, blah blah blah. I was 90% sure he was going to bet turn (He was 7.0!) but of course I still should have 3-bet flop. Assuming you made this bad play, and you have a very loose image as I do,whats your play on the river? I'm only looking for input on the river decision...I'm fine with flop and turn. Thanks.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $67.25
BB: $29.00
UTG: $281.75
Hero (CO): $228.15
BTN: $250.95

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.00</font>, BTN calls $6.00, 2 folds

Flop: ($15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $10.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $28.00</font>, Hero calls $18.00

Turn: ($71) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($71) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $52.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $123.00 ($2 Rake)

[2cards2come]

I'd have let it go too. $52.00 looks like hes begging to get paid off IMO. Not much you can do after that river card.

[checkit888]

I just started playing no limit, so take my opinion for whats its worth.

But after you showing weakness on the turn and river, BTN bets hoping to take the pot.

Coming from a limit background, I would have paid him off, or shoved my stack. Since he didn't raise you PF, what could he call you with? Certainly not pocket KK, QQ. Maybe flush draw.

I probably would have bet the river, and fold if reraised to.

Again, i'm very new at no limit, so I probalby have no idea what i'm talking about.

[Rolon]

I don't want to make too many threads so I'll just make the Rolon's tough decisions thread. What do you make of this hand? Villain is 18/15/3.4 and I'm not sure if he is able to make a move but he is a thinking player so he very well could be.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $435.95
BB: $230.90
UTG: $234.40
MP: $198.00
CO: $237.00
Hero (BTN): $382.75

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
2 folds, CO calls $2.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10.00</font>, SB calls $9.00, BB folds, CO calls $8.00

Flop: ($32) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($32) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $20.00</font>, SB calls $20.00, CO folds

River: ($72) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $50.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $150.00</font>, Hero calls $100.00

Pot Size: $372.00 ($3 Rake)

[tannenj]

hand 1: you said it, but the flop play is terrible; it's so bad i almost don't want to look at the rest of the hand. but given the flop play, i play turn and river the same. i check turn hoping to cr, then i cf river because i doubt a 17/7 is good enough to value bet a hand you're beating here.

[ QUOTE ]
Coming from a limit background, I would have paid him off, or shoved my stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

check-calling river is probably not good. shoving is a huge mistake and you'll be a losing player if you do stuff like that.

hand 2: again, you [censored] up the flop. there is absolutely no reason to check here. you should be betting with a plan to bet turn and river too. turn and river are played well.

[Fletcher19]

hand 1: bet the turn, 55 hands is absolutely nowhere near a large enough sample for aggression factor

hand 2: bet the flop, as played the river is probably a fold, your average 18/15 is not pulling c/r river bluffs like this and it is very unlikely he is doing it with an inferior hand (a 10 maybe)

[fees]

100% fold, flush/bigger TP are there and this will rarely end up ina bluff, he has FD here vast majority of time, you OBV 3 bet..

[orange]

agree w. tannenj.

[Slap My Jack]

Hand 1:

You have bottom two pair on a 2flush board with a king on it. I don't mind 3betting the flop here. You have a well-disguised monster that is still vulnerable. I think you should bet more on the flop than 2/3 as well, don't get milkish as the tendency seems to be with your hands. As played, I think the turn and river are standard.

Hand 2:

You lose money from flush draws and weaker aces who are also slowplaying. It's a 3way pot, trying to induce bluffs is not the /most profitable/ idea. If the board were more dry, you could venture a check in this spot, but even then you will still sometimes get loose calls from pocket pairs if you cbet a lot. River is a pretty sick spot, against this opponent it could be argued as a fold, but I look him up and hope he just has trips weaker kicker and not a turned set or flopped boat or rivered boat. He could very easiily see you as weak here and is just trying to extract with a sooted ace.

[a50cNtPCe]

EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS - REGARDS TO HAND 1

THIS IS A TIP FROM A PRO I READ YESTERDAY

Players get excited when they flop two pair because they know they're in a great position to take down a pot. But often, two pair is not nearly as powerful as it seems. This is especially true when holding bottom two pair or top and bottom pair. These hands may look dominant on the flop, but they're usually quite vulnerable.

For example, say you're playing a No-Limit Hold 'em ring game. There's a standard raise to four times the big blind from middle position. You figure the player has A-K or maybe a middle or high pocket pair. Everyone folds to you on the button, where you find 5d-7d. You've got favorable position and a hand that can flop some powerful draws, so you decide to call. The blinds fold, and the flop comes 5c-7h-Ks.

This is great. Not only do you have two pair, but it's very likely that your opponent has a piece of this flop, with top pair top kicker or maybe an over-pair. He bets into you, and you have to decide what action is best.

I've seen some players smooth call in situations like this, but that is not a wise play. When you have bottom two pair and your opponent has an over-pair or top pair/top kicker, you're not as big a favorite as you might think. Your opponent has five outs - cards that will counterfeit your two-pair - which gives him a very live draw. You're a 75% favorite to take the pot, and that's great, but it's not the type of statistical edge that justifies slow playing.

The better play is to raise and put your opponent to a decision right there. Many players overplay top pair and over-pairs, and will either call or re-raise all-in. That gives you the chance to put all of your money in the pot as a big favorite. If he puts a bad beat on you at that point, so be it.

Is it possible your raise will force your opponent out of the pot and kill your action? Sure, if he's sitting with a pair of Queens or Jacks he'll likely fold, but against that sort of hand, you'd have no chance to win much of a pot anyway. Your opponent would probably check to you and then fold to any bet on the turn. And as Howard Lederer pointed out in a recent tip on playing sets, if a blank comes on the turn and you raise at that point, you'll be sending an indication that the turn card helped you in some way. He'll have to assume that his lone pair is no good.

There will be occasions when you flop bottom two pair or top and bottom pair at the same time your opponent catches top two pair or a set. When that happens, you're going to go broke. In fact, you should lose your stack in most situations like this. If you're not willing to risk a lot of chips in this kind of hand, you're probably not doing enough to maximize your pots when your hold the best hand.

When you find yourself holding two pair, play them aggressively and get your money in on the flop. It's the surest way to get the maximum profit from a strong but vulnerable hand.