Official Blather about ZeeJustin Till The End of Time Thread

[BusterAMG]

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Wait, so we have confirmed that party gave the money back to players involved in the tournies? That would serve as proof that they actually confiscated the money in the first place. I am still not whole-heartedly convinced that stars and party didn't work out some deal with said ZJ and JJ where they must publicly admit they cheated and they get to keep their money. =/

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I doubt that writing a post accusing Party of conspiracy and giving excuses would have been part of ZJ's deal. Furthermore, there is just no incentive for Party to give ZJ anything(not to mention that the majority of their customers support confiscating cheaters' accounts) -- he will still return to Party and Stars as soon as he can even after losing 100k - only a couple months' worth of work.

[Hobbes413]

Since you asked for posters over 20, I'll cut and paste my opinion from the main thread. I'm 34 if it matters.

The issue that I haven't seen addressed, and the one that's bothering me the most, is that ZeeJustin and a few other high level players seem to feel no obligation to give anything back to the game of poker. In ZJ's case, not only did he not see fit to give back, but was so greedy that he sought to dishonestly claim even more from a game that has already given him so much.

My own personal philosophy is that those who are the most blessed owe the greatest debt. It offends me to see anyone cheat or steal, but this offense is heightened when it comes from someone who was already born with the tools to make a greater living than most people could dream of by simply applying the gifts God has granted him.

Why is it never enough for some people to just be thankful for their blessings? What a sad testament to this young man's lack of character to cheat in a game in which he already has a significant edge. The guy is twenty years old making more than most people twice his age, and it still isn't enough.

I've seen a great deal of elitism and moral relativism in this thread and elsewhere on two plus two. It saddens me that so many successful players seek to pull up the ladder behind them as soon as they've made it to the top. Many seem to forget that no one, no matter how naturally gifted, ever makes it to the top without some help. Hard work is always required to succeed at a high level, but no man's success is entirely his own.

Anyone who truly loves and respects this game, anyone with an ounce of character, should feel compelled to return the help he received not in kind, but exponentially to his success.

Those who shrug at cheating and claim that it is not their place to police the world might want to consider that others may one day hope to enjoy the means of financial success that they have enjoyed. This will only be possible if online poker continues to be viewed as a basically trustworthy game. It is in every honest player's self-interest to ensure the integrity of the game. If one finds himself with a bitter taste in his mouth at the mere mention of morals, ethics, or obligation, then this alone should be enough.

As far as Curtain's role in all of this, I think that many of the posters here owe the man an apology. He is one of the single table forum's best contributors and, in my opinion, the epitome of class. He clearly played no role in sanctioning or excusing ZJ's cheating, and simply has a difference of opinion than others (myself included) on the matter of ZJ's character.

I'd also like to mention that, although many people here have disappointed me greatly, there are some fantastic contributors here at twoplustwo at all levels of play. I owe a great deal of my (modest) success to this forum, and hope that it remains a community where we can all help each other reach our potential, not exploit one another for personal gain.

In the end, when you help another you usually wind up helping yourself along the way.

[Indiana]

Hobbes this is a good post. And yes, curtains is the man fo sho.

[sandsmarc]

The last thing I need to see at this point is a miserable self-serving apology from a gambling cheat.

Indy, you sound like a typical bleeding heart wimp. No consequences, no responsibilities, just feelings.

Terrible, just terrible.

[OldLearner]

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Doesn't anybody hear what I'm saying? Is there anybody in here over 21 yrs of age who can impart some maturity on this situation?


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I am 45. I hope that qualifies as mature.

ZJ is a cheater.
He is also incredibly well off for a 19 yr old (?).
He was also an icon for the game (or attempting to be).

You say the forum is way overboard on its reaction. I completely disagree. In fact, I think you are way overboard with your reaction.

It's "mature" people like you that put pedophiles and child molestors back on the streets (dramatic? perhaps, but I guarantee they aren't getting back out because of people like me).

ZJ should have had his entire balance from PokerStars taken.

Poor young ZJ. He cannot become the poker icon he dreamed of being. He had a wonderful opportunity and cheated it away.

Now the poor guy only has a ton of cash and his youth to give him more opportunities in his life than 95% of the other people his age.

Poor him.

Some mature advice for you....

Go and find some hard working young people that are earning what they can, albeit not much, but still working hard, and honestly trying to get ahead. They have not much future because their limited resources also limits their choices. Some of these people are single mothers, giving their all to support their children by themselves.

I believe you may be misguided with your sympathy and compassion. There are a lot of people who actually deserve sympathy and compassion.

Also, part of being mature is learning to take your head out of your ass so you can actually hear what you are saying.

[Indiana]

I'm listening.

Indy

[Smoothcall]

You say why did he cheat when he already had all this talent to beat the game on the square basically. How do we know that? We don't. The success you saw him have was while he was cheating. Anyone who can play 6 accounts at same time will be a huge winner unless they arw a complete moron. I think finding this cheating out questions(or at least hasn't proven) how good his ability is. He may be worse than you. If you played 6 accounts i bet you would do pretty darn good too. Many have bragged about him being this great tourney player and was idolized in the multi-table section. Well maybe he's not that great or worse. We dont know because he was cheating all the while. I mean its possible he's good but why talk about him like he's good or great and has all this talent when all you know is he's had success on sites that he cheated. I think there is insufficent data on his ability at the moment. Same with jjprodigy and whoever comes out next cheating. There reputaiton as a player(not just as a person) has been destroyed imo for insufficent data. He might be great but he might not be too. Again i got nothing against him. Don't know him. He could be a nice kid that made a a mistake. But as far as his ability until he beats games on the square he's unproven jmo.

[Hobbes413]

Well, there's no evidence so far that he cheated at SNGs, a format he was regarded as outstanding at playing. Barring evidence to the contrary, I'm going to go ahead and credit him with having remarkable talent.

[Smoothcall]

Ever hear the saying where there is smoke there is fire? The chances that he didnt cheat in some way in SNG's when he has been found out having 6 accounts and cheating multi's very unlikely that he didnt cheated. Why would he play one on the square and cheat the other? A cheat is a cheat. Hell he probably played with his buddies in the SNG's too and kept players out on the bubble. I know there is no prroof of this but common. Do you think the big bad wolf was gonna blow the house down then have tead with little red riding hood?(don't know iof that made sense but sounded kinda fnny lol)

[prohornblower]

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Poor guy ZeeJustin. Such a harsh and tough poker forum. I hope none of you guys ever need any mercy in life.

Indy

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The dude is turning 21 years old this year.

He's not 7.

He cheated KNOWINGLY. Whether or not Party's punishment was justified (I think it is), the reaction from members of THIS FORUM are entirely NATURAL.

You cannot fault people for "throwing him under the wheels". It is their natural response to this despicable act from a guy whom we all thought was generally a decent kid.

He'll make his $100K back eventually. He'll never fully repair his reputation. That's the way things go. For some reason, people like to trust people, until they totally F*** them over.

Would it be better if society just treated everyone like a cheat until proven innocent? Or honest until proven dishonest? I think the latter seems to work pretty well. It's also the funnest.