Can anyone fill us in on Vanessa Rousso altercation?

[prophet73]

Just a reminder, Liz Lieu also had etiquette issues with Vanessa (from Liz's blog awhile back):

"There was 1 seat open with chips there but no player for about 3 hrs. The missing player showed up and it was a girl named Vanessa Russo ( I think that's how it's spelled ). About 10 mins before a 15 minute break I was involved in a huge pot and lost about 45k of my chips. This is how the hand went down... The blinds were 100-200 with 25 ante, it was my big blind... action gets to Vanessa and she raises to 700, one player calls behind her then the action gets to me, I picked up JJ's so I smooth called the 500 raise. The flop came Q Q 2 ( 2 clubs) I check, Vanessa bets out 2k, the other player mucks, actions to me now I raised to 5k to see where she at, she immediately raises to 10k, I think for a bit and calls the raise, the turn comes a J which gives me a full house,I check and she immediately checks behind me, the river comes a Q... the ugliest card for my hand, I checked and she moves all in which she had about almost 35k. I'm put in a really tough decision. I then took some time to analyze the whole hand and how it was played for about a minute or two and then I hear the dealer call the clock on me. This was the first time ever that I have gotten someone to call the clock on me. I then asked the dealer who called for a clock and he responded that the all in player had called the clock. I thought that was pretty inconsiderate considering the amount I had to make a decision whether to call or not. What really threw me off was her check on the turn. There were only a couple hands that I could put her on, an over pair or a nut flush draw which missed. I finally decided to call.. After I threw my chips in she then said " Nice Hand " before turning over her cards which were the A Q of spades which gave her quad Q's at the end. Now that was just wrong saying something like that especially to someone that just lost a huge pot and them knowing they had the nuts. Five mins later it's time for a 15 mins break and one of the players on the table came up to me and gave me a sorry look and said that was very bad etiquette what she had said. Then a few reporters that were standing around at my table during that hand also heard it and came up to me and said the same exact thing."

[prophet73]

And Vanessa's response here on twoplustwo to those accusations:

"She described the way the hand went down entirely correctly until the end...I had AQ suited, I bet and re-raised the flop with what i felt was the best hand at that point, and Liz called my re-raise. When she just called and didn't push pre-flop I thought she either had QK, QJ, JJ, or 10 10 (aces and kings were not an option since she undoubtedly would have re-raised my pre flop raise when she realized action would be four ways). When she checked the turn (J), I was nervous that she boated with JJ or QJ (as she apparently did). So, I checked. The river gave me a queen. When she checked to me I had a few seconds to try and figure out how to maximize value in the hand. I figured going all in would convince her I was weak as someone with quads would probably not grossly over-bet the pot. I went all in and she went into the think tank for at least a full 3-4 minutes. During that time I got up, walked around, took off my sunglasses, tried to look as confident as possible (since that’s what bluffers would undoubtedly do in that scenario). Finally, I called the clock for two reasons. One, it had been at least 3 full minutes and I was under the assumption that it is within a player's rights to call the clock on an opponent when necessary (in fact, this happened to me numerous times during the tournament so I know I am not the only player who chooses to exercise this right...Victor Ramdin did it several times on Day 6). The second reason was simple poker psychology. It is well known that people call the clock on opponents when they are nervous and they want the opponent to fold. I knew that Liz did not know who I was, and as far as she knew I was a donkey whose boyfriend bought her in....I thought I could get away with convincing her I was weak, and enticing a call, by calling the clock. Liz chose to call at the end of the minute given to her. Now, this is the important part. She put a stack of chips in the center. But she did not say "I Call." I asked, “Did you call?” She did not answer, and in my haste to interpret her actions as a call I flipped over my cards and said "I have quads." I know these are the words I chose as I have never ever uttered them before (I have never had quads in a live event before) and I can definitely recall saying them. I also am positive those are the words I chose because I immediately wanted to take them back as I was nervous that she had not actually called yet…that I had misunderstood her actions…and that I had preemptively exposed my hand. As the pot was given to me she said, “I had Jacks.” To this, I replied, “I’m sorry then, what a cold deck, I got really lucky.” I never ever said “nice hand.” And I most certainly did not slow roll. If something I said was misheard as “nice hand,” then that is the only plausible explanation I can think of. I am not saying Liz is lying….I hope she isn’t the one who wrote that…but if she is, then I assume she misheard me. I only wish that if she did have that impression of me she would have spoken to me personally so that I could explain that that was not what I said and if that is what she heard then I am very sorry but she must have misheard me. In the confusion and stress of the situation I am not sure either one of us were thinking all that clearly. Looking back, Liz was a little stand-offish to me after that hand. I assumed it was because she was upset at having lost a pot, or even that maybe when I took the pot down I acted too excited (I thought maybe she thought I was not sensitive to her losing a big pot…which also would not have been my intentions…but given how huge the pot was I wasn’t thinking very clearly and I got caught up in the moment). Now I understand that she thought I slow-rolled her…I only hope she reads this and understands that I really did not, at least knowingly, do so. I am sorry if I did not handle any part of my reactions with Liz appropriately. As I have stated before, I admire her and her playing ability tremendously. I hope that this clears up any confusion."

[strongsauce]

This is like Poker Rashomon, all we need now is the dealer and Chad Brown's side of the story.

[Daliman]

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Just a reminder, Liz Lieu also had etiquette issues with Vanessa (from Liz's blog awhile back):

"There was 1 seat open with chips there but no player for about 3 hrs. The missing player showed up and it was a girl named Vanessa Russo ( I think that's how it's spelled ). About 10 mins before a 15 minute break I was involved in a huge pot and lost about 45k of my chips. This is how the hand went down... The blinds were 100-200 with 25 ante, it was my big blind... action gets to Vanessa and she raises to 700, one player calls behind her then the action gets to me, I picked up JJ's so I smooth called the 500 raise. The flop came Q Q 2 ( 2 clubs) I check, Vanessa bets out 2k, the other player mucks, actions to me now I raised to 5k to see where she at, she immediately raises to 10k, I think for a bit and calls the raise, the turn comes a J which gives me a full house,I check and she immediately checks behind me, the river comes a Q... the ugliest card for my hand, I checked and she moves all in which she had about almost 35k. I'm put in a really tough decision. I then took some time to analyze the whole hand and how it was played for about a minute or two and then I hear the dealer call the clock on me. This was the first time ever that I have gotten someone to call the clock on me. I then asked the dealer who called for a clock and he responded that the all in player had called the clock. I thought that was pretty inconsiderate considering the amount I had to make a decision whether to call or not. What really threw me off was her check on the turn. There were only a couple hands that I could put her on, an over pair or a nut flush draw which missed. I finally decided to call.. After I threw my chips in she then said " Nice Hand " before turning over her cards which were the A Q of spades which gave her quad Q's at the end. Now that was just wrong saying something like that especially to someone that just lost a huge pot and them knowing they had the nuts. Five mins later it's time for a 15 mins break and one of the players on the table came up to me and gave me a sorry look and said that was very bad etiquette what she had said. Then a few reporters that were standing around at my table during that hand also heard it and came up to me and said the same exact thing."

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Sounds like Liz needs a tougher boyfriend.

[prophet73]

And FWIW, Jean Gluck's accounts of Vanessa in that same tourney with Liz Lieu:

"Some on this thread may think she's hot, some may not, but one things for sure this girl infuriated ALOT of poker pros. I think every person watching the final 6 tables and on (except her bf) wanted her to get knocked out. Freddy Deeb is not the only incident of foul poker play from her, there are a few others I heard about.

She rivered quads vs. Liz Lieu's full house, When Liz finally called on the river, Vanessa slow rolled by saying first "nice hand".

60 players left she flopped a Q high flush against a J high flush, when she saw her opponents hand she stood up to shake his hand before she showed her cards, She didn't even knock him out of the tournament!! A little arrogant.

The final thing I heard from was someone on the table asked her if she was afaid to play against anyone, she said no. The person asked "Even Doyle??". She responded "Why should I be afraid of Doyle, I have alot more chips than him". lol

I'm very suprised no one punched HER in the face the whole tournament. Also, I guess she was in Costa Rica at the same tournament I was, I don't remember her at all. I'm actually suprised she considers herself a pro. Her whole demeanor is very amateur. I'm sure she doesn't even realize she is hurting her future poker career "

Jean Gluck

[southerndog]

Dali,

I haven't seen her on TV, I don't get american TV.

[NicksDad1970]

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Chad Brown is a big dude and is for sure on roids. Im sure he could intimidate some people.

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It's early in the day but this is the dumbest thing I've heard so far.

That is unless you have some first hand knowledge that Chad is on steroids. if that's the case I take back my previous comment.

[darom03]

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Checks to cutoff short stack player who raises to 600 (100, 200 blinds).

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Re-raise pre-flop if he is short stacked and only opening 3x with 10.75 bb's since AJs is so strong shorthanded?

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I call.

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Oops.

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I make an aggressive call of 1550 more because I was getting more than 3:1 on my money, we were shorthanded so AJ is stronger than in ring games, and I still have a healthy 10K (almost double average) stack even if I lose.

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Aggressive call, nice. Also, starting hand value's do not rise and fall depending on if it is cash or tournaments.

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Flop comes A A 2 rainbow. Big stack checks and I check.

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[blablablablablablabla....continues with rant]

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OMG! Why do we care for your elaborately written opinions in this thread?

Amazing how some posters thinks that we give a [censored] about what they think... Did you really find it necessary (and worthwhile) to dissect her post in that way [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I care and give a F what he thinks, and others do too, obviously, from the responses.

This is a discussion forum. If you do not like discussion, the may not be the place for you.

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If you really believe the post I quoted is how a discussion should be, you need to get out more, meet real people and discover what an intelligent discussion is all about... Because It is NOT about dissecting every word and turning it into some sort of hate post. DUCY?

[darom03]

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First of all I never called Vanessa an idiot or pathetic. The exhcange she has in quotes is inaccurate, she actually said I was not worth it and bad and I said "bad at what?" while laughing and then we both stopped talking. At some point she said "who the [censored] are you?" Insulting things I said included that she misplayed every street and could not have played the hand worse. I probably said she played terribly as well. Guilty as charged.

Also she was the first one to say right as the shortstack shoved that the 3bettor couldn't reraise. Also the flop was AA4 with two diamonds. During the hand she said that the three bettor might be an idiot with kings and after the hand she kept saying it was so sick that he had 2 outed her. (Also she was not happy about the dealer calling the clock which is debatable but she did take well over 4 minutes.) That's when I first opened my mouth (BIG MISTAKE!). And LOL at her lasting 30 more minutes. After the ax debacle (she mucked with only an ace face up so im not sure she was even as strong as aj) she played a few pots and doubled up with jj allin preflop vs ak. Then she overcalled an ep raise from the sb with 910o one or two orbits later and then check called a q9x flop and check called a turn shove on a rag and lost to kq and got up and left.

Hopefully some of the guys from our table post on 2p2 and they can chime in. Seats 1, 2, and I had a good laugh about it after Vanessa left (honestly I wouldn't have if I had known how upset she was.)

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I guess things can get pretty heated at the tables pretty fast.

Did you really think that an apology later was not in order when you met her in the hallway?

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Are you kidding? There's no way anyone would give an apology after her boyfriend threatens to beat him up. It's not about the confrontation between the two of them at that point, it's about Chad Brown running in like Rambo without a jock strap to play hero.

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Were you there or are you speculating?

[exec771]

Good thread so far, learnt alot about aggressive shorthanded pokah...

All we need now is an Admo photoshop to really kick this into high gear...